Official Languages Committee on May 1st, 2012

[Marie-France Kenny]

No I do not believe so. I would like to comment on that issue. I believe you obtained your numbers from the mid-term status report on the Roadmap. We have analyzed these numbers and we certainly challenge them.

First of all, let me state that these numbers are based on the mother tongue. According to these numbers, there was an increase of 100 people over two years in our communities. However, in 2006, 13% of our communities were made up of immigrants and that proportion has not ceased growing since then. Given all of the initiatives to promote recruitment, we definitely challenge those numbers.

Perhaps we should be measuring the first official language spoken. For example, if a person arriving in our community is of Arab origin, that person's mother tongue would be Arabic. However, that person's first official language is often French and that is what should be measured. We will be able to do so as of 2011.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

In the previous Parliament, the committee did some very good work examining the whole issue of immigration. If we do nothing, the country will become increasingly polarized, that is to say fewer francophone immigrants outside of Quebec and most francophone immigrants moving to Quebec. Over the next 20 years, that will lead to greater polarization and we all know what that can mean.

Unless I'm mistaken, the target had been set at 4.4% by 2021. But that is what we presently have. In the meantime, we are at barely 1.8%. Only Manitoba is aiming for 7% in order to reestablish a certain balance.

Do you have any comments about that?

[Marie-France Kenny]

There is no national target. When the committee did its study, we actually recommended there be a national target, that is to say a national strategy.

The other thing I must tell you is that we learned that the Destination Canada initiative that allowed us to recruit and promote francophone communities has been abolished. That was a Roadmap initiative. That initiative has been reduced by $600,000. So, travel will no longer be paid for people from provinces and communities in order to—

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Excuse me. Are you telling me that funding for Destination Canada, that communities came here to praise, is being cut?

[Marie-France Kenny]

At Destination Canada, funding for people travelling from communities and provinces has been cut. You understand that provinces received money to fund travel for people from communities.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

I still have 1 minute and 14 seconds.

I thought Minister Moore said in the House that no funding would be cut from the Roadmap and you congratulated him about that.

[Marie-France Kenny]

And—

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

And now you're telling me there are some.

[Marie-France Kenny]

That is what we learned. We are trying to meet with Minister Kenney to clarify the situation. We have a meeting set up with Minister Moore this week. So, we are certainly trying to clear this up.

However, I can tell you that we are very concerned. On the one hand, we were told that investments in the Roadmap would not be reduced, but on the other hand, we have now learned that investments in the Roadmap are effectively being cut.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Do not be surprised. That department, as well as the cabinet, has a tendency to mislead the population. Just look at what happened with the F-35s.

[Marie-France Kenny]

If I may say so, Mr. Bélanger, we have set the target at 4.4%. That involves not only communities, but also Citizenship and Immigration Canada.

Through these cutbacks in Destination Canada's expenses, we have just lost—

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

This is something that should be followed, madam.

[Marie-France Kenny]

—the only funding that allowed us to do recruiting and promotion.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Thank you.

I still have 10 seconds. So I will tell you that I shall continue to be involved and to keep an eye on these files.

I wish you good luck in your efforts.

Thank you.

[Marie-France Kenny]

Thank you, Mr. Bélanger.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Thank you, Mr. Bélanger.

Mr. Trottier, the floor is yours.

[Bernard Trottier, Conservative, Etobicoke—Lakeshore, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like to thank our guests for being here this morning.

I think your testimony is very important and I do not consider this committee's work to be useless. This is important work. It would be a mistake for the committee not to study the issue of the Roadmap, because I think it is the most important work the Standing Committee on Official Languages can do, that is to launch a long-term plan. We discussed it with the minister. It is precisely because the Roadmap is a long-term plan that its expenditures were not reduced. According to the testimony of several of our witnesses, often, it is not known if the funds are from the Roadmap or from the departments themselves. So, that may be the problem. We will never apologize for trying to save money when providing government services.

I had some questions for the Ottawa University representatives. I studied there myself in the past. I think you are doing wonderful work. This is a very special experience within Canada. Are other universities in the world doing this type of work?

Although the experience in Canada, as a bilingual country, is quite unique in creating this climate of closeness between the linguistic communities, there are other countries in the world, such as Belgium, Switzerland or even certain Eastern European countries, with more than one language. Do you have contacts with those universities in other countries of the world in order to share this experience?

[Richard Clément]

Yes, we are in constant communication. I mentioned our relationship with the European Centre for Modern Languages in Graz. In fact, it was created as a result of the Council of Europe's language policies. Through the centre, we maintain relationships with 37 European countries that work on the same principle.

Currently, there are few universities offering a bilingual education like us. The University of Fribourg is one example that comes to mind. We have invited representatives of this university on several different occasions to come and speak to us about their experience. Obviously, it is a completely different context. Even if our relationship with them is one allowing for the transfer of knowledge, even at that level, the context limits the extent to which we can transfer that knowledge. The legal context of languages is completely different.

[Bernard Trottier, Conservative, Etobicoke—Lakeshore, ON]

I see the supply side exists. This means that there are youth and management training programs. But, where is the demand coming from? What is stopping the demand? Why are people not enrolling in bilingual training programs? What is preventing them from doing that?

I imagine that there is a constant desire for economic progress. However, is it also love for the other language? What can government do to generate love? It is always difficult for the government to determine how to generate that love, but that is the real issue. Do you agree with me that this is the impetus behind the demand for language studies?

[Richard Clément]

I do agree, all the more so because I have spent a good part of my career as a researcher repeating that to all and sundry. Obviously, how useful a language is plays a role for many people.

Ultimately, the ones who learn more than the basics and retain that language, the ones who keep up their skills, will be those who find other reasons to be interested. I believe that this involves integration to some extent, a desire to communicate with members of that other group and to become like those who can speak that other language by sharing their culture.

How can we create that kind of situation? I think it is a matter of interaction between groups and mutual appreciation. There needs to be interaction in an equal and pleasant environment that will lead to positive relationships. There are some federal programs that do this. For example, programs that allow students to travel across Canada and live in a second-language setting.

[Bernard Trottier, Conservative, Etobicoke—Lakeshore, ON]

For students taking part in exchange programs, has the trend over the past five years been to do not all, but perhaps just part of their studies in the second language? Is the trend going up or down?

[Richard Clément]

In our opinion, there is a clear and constant increase. We are talking about francophile students, meaning anglophones who come to us and take part in our immersion programs.

As a result, it is clear that our intake capacity is under significant pressure. Furthermore, the immersion program funding is indirectly provided by the federal government through, in this case, an agreement with Ontario. So, with more funding, we could increase our capacity.

Second-language acquisition can also be a by-product, meaning without the language being the focus of the studies. The best way to learn another language is when a subject other than the language interests you. For example, you could learn another language—say, French—by studying history. So thanks to an interest in history, someone might learn the other language.

This is how we motivate students to not only maintain their language skills but also improve them.

[Bernard Trottier, Conservative, Etobicoke—Lakeshore, ON]

During your presentation, you talked more about working with the Réseau interaméricain de formation en langues.

As you know, our foreign policy is turning increasingly toward the Americas. I think that South and Central American countries have long been ignored but we are showing an increasing interest in them now.

What economic, cultural or social advantages or educational opportunities are available to young Canadians who wish to work with Latin American countries? Having this linguistic knowledge furthers Canadian solidarity. How can we encourage young people to get interested in learning languages?

[Richard Clément]

Other than learning French and English, young people are increasingly interested in learning a third or fourth language. This fact is clearly evidenced by various programs at the University of Ottawa.

Our relationship with South America heavily favours the learning of Portuguese and Spanish. Our young people are very interested. The fact that this allows them to travel, for example, is also an incredible advantage. Everyone wants to travel. Language, again, is learned as a by-product of one's interest in learning more about others during travel, which keeps them motivated.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Thank you.

We will now take a short break.

We'll take a brief break for two minutes.