Official Languages Committee on Dec. 12th, 2012

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

Yes, the last four years during which we have increased our investment. When we look at the Statistics Canada figures, we see that, today, over 4.8 million people—or 17.5% of Canada's population—can speak English and French. That figure is unprecedented. The situation has been improved. Our funding has been increased. We went from your lowest figure of $750 million to $1.1 billion.

[Stéphane Dion, Liberal, Saint-Laurent—Cartierville, QC]

Because you are including your cuts.

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

That is an increase, Mr. Dion. If you think that our budget has yielded no results, you will now have to apologize to Marie-France Kenny, the President of the FCFA. When she saw our budget, she supported it. She said that they were very happy that the investments in official languages will remain at their current level. She said that the commitment and the efforts made by the Minister of Canadian Heritage should be applauded.

Marie-France Kenny also said, and I quote:

“Thank you, James Moore, for defending the interests of francophone and Acadian Canadians.”

You may think that she is not doing her job, but she was elected President of the FCFA. She said that we were doing our job, that we have increased our investment. If you made a mistake when you were minister, that is your problem and not mine.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Thank you.

Mr. Trottier, you have the floor.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lotbinière—Chutes-de-la-Chaudière, QC]

Mr. Chair, I have a point of order.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Okay?

Mr. Trottier, go ahead.

[Bernard Trottier, Conservative, Etobicoke—Lakeshore, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Minister, in principle, we are here today to talk about the annual report. Thank you for your patience. On several occasions, people went on tangents and discussed matters that had nothing to do with the topic at hand.

I would like to ask you a question that is not directly related to the annual report, but that has to do with the census that was just published after the annual report.

In your opinion, what are the challenges in terms of linguistic duality? Priorities in investments may change to ensure that duality. What are the main factors of that census, especially regarding francophonie, but also regarding the anglophone fact in Quebec?

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

This shows that Canada is becoming increasingly diverse and that Canadians' ability to speak more languages is a success for the country. We will continue to invest and meet our commitments under our roadmap, but it is also important for the Minister of Citizenship, Immigration and Multiculturalism to maintain his commitments towards new Canadians. In my opinion, the census figures are generally good news for Canada. They show that the number of Canadians who speak English and French is increasing. Some successes have certainly been achieved.

As for what Mr. Dion just said, it is really childish to suggest that governing the population of Canada allows the government to ensure that a specific number of Canadians can speak both official languages. It's as if it were just a matter of central economic policy, a central linguistic capacity, and specific results could be obtained simply by providing sufficient funding for our system. It is not as easy as that. Our country is complex. The country's levels of immigration and diversity are constantly changing.

As a government, we have the obligation to protect both official languages—in other words, to protect the federal government's capacity of to fulfill its mandate in both languages. In addition, we have to implement policies and programs to promote official languages and convince young people and immigrants arriving in the country that speaking more languages is an advantage, that it will increase their cultural, social and economic opportunities, and that French and English are both Canada's official languages.

[Bernard Trottier, Conservative, Etobicoke—Lakeshore, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Minister.

To strengthen linguistic duality, you often have to get involved in areas under provincial jurisdiction—such as education, health services, early childhood and services for seniors—and that always poses risks. Coordinating that work across the 10 Canadian provinces and territories is always a challenge.

How can we improve the way to work with provinces in order to ensure that the necessary services are provided in terms of linguistic duality?

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

That is not easy because the demands and expectations are very high in some regions, but not in others. Mr. Godin and others know very well that what is affecting the New Brunswick education system, for instance, is a very passionate debate on the ground. People are voicing their opinions on the topic.

It is certainly inappropriate for a minister from Canada's west coast who works with officials here in Ottawa to tell provinces that they have to make their education system operate in a specific way if they want to receive a few million dollars a year. That is why we have agreements. There are negotiations between the provinces and my officials. We are working together to meet Canada's needs for an education system where both official languages are used, but we are not imposing a Government of Canada policy in this area, which comes under provincial jurisdiction.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Fine, thank you.

Mr. Lauzon, you have the floor.

[Guy Lauzon, Conservative, Stormont—Dundas—South Glengarry, ON]

Minister, I have just a very brief question, then probably Mr. Wilks will take....

In your speech, you say:

Our government's aim is to ensure that our funding continues to yield real, tangible benefits to communities and to ensure that our funding helps promote both of our official languages. In our next road map, we will make sure that we manage the initiatives as effectively as possible.

Can you expand on that? How are we going to do that?

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

Certainly. It's difficult sometimes. We face this question often with culture—right?—and with cultural organizations where, for example, if we have.... We put in place the fifth pillar of our road map, which is language and culture. People ask, “How do you know if you received benefits from that?” Well, we say, we set aside a pot of money of $14 million and organizations applied for money. They qualified for the money. They spent the money. A festival happened. Kids went to it. Was it effective? Time will tell. There's no matrix to tell you whether or not it was effective: a child having a good experience, right...?

On the other hand, there are other programs where you can have more concrete results. For example, we talk about how French immersion.... And by the way, that's a very large success story. Mr. Dion pooh-poohed it, but give me a break: when there's a 10% increase in enrolment in French immersion education in this country, that's a fantastic result.

Liberals never saw that. We've done that, and we're very proud of that, but we didn't do it by bullying provinces. We worked with provinces. We provided the funding. We make the argument consistently and proudly on the importance of both of Canada's official languages.

That's a real result: a 10% increase in French immersion enrolment by young Canadians. When you learn a language at a young age, it sticks with you for life, and you'll learn a second language and you'll learn a third language. You'll become proud of this country and proud of its heritage and its bilingual past, present, and future. That's a great thing. That's a great success story that I'm very proud of.

When you put in these investments, sometimes you can measure concrete results and success stories. There are the thousands of nurses and doctors across this country who, in an effort to service communities where a sizable portion of the population is French-speaking, go and learn French. For example, somebody phones in a panic and says,

“Yes, my young child is having problems with his legs. He needs help. Can you help me?”

If somebody on the other end of the phone says, “I'm sorry, but I can't help you”, they need that support. In a panicked moment, people need to be able to communicate in the official language of their choice. Doctors and nurses now have a program that's available to them whereby they can learn French, so that when somebody picks up the phone in a panic and says,

“Yes, my child is having some kind of crisis. There is something abnormal with his legs. This is an emergency, can you help me?”

they can get an answer in French. It's helpful. Hundreds and indeed thousands of nurses and doctors have been trained in this country because of this investment. That's a real benefit. We're going to continue doing this and we're going to continue to have results. It's going to continue to work.

I think when people see the next road map, when they realize what we have done and will continue to do, they will realize that official languages in this country are doing incredibly well, and it's going to be an ongoing battle to make sure that we have these services.

[Guy Lauzon, Conservative, Stormont—Dundas—South Glengarry, ON]

I can testify to that, if I can have just a minute. I presented my Jubilee medals on Sunday past. I had 31. We did it bilingually. We had some problems in Cornwall with the English and French. Anyhow, we did it bilingually. If you were an anglophone, we read your bio in English, and we did the summary in French, and vice versa. After we did it, we had anglophones going to our francophone representatives and saying that it was so well done, and vice versa.

We need to expose people to the other language. It works. It really works. I think there are a lot of success stories, but people have to be given a chance to hear the other language and to get to know the other people. It's working. It really is working, so thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Thank you.

Mr. Benskin, you have the floor.

[Tyrone Benskin, NDP, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

Thank you.

You kind of made our argument for us as far as the closing of the search and rescue station in regard to.... You know, we agree on that.

My question is around French immersion. One of the fastest-growing contributors to our population is the immigrant population. I believe it was StatsCan that came out with numbers saying that it is the immigrant population that is looking for training, for access to language courses, in both official languages. The problem is, as we've heard from many witnesses, the availability of places in immersion programs and so forth is problematic.

Now, it's great that there's been an augmentation of 10%, but there are more people who are looking to get into French immersion. I'm wondering how the road map might help increase access within this country to immersion classes for Canadians in general, but particularly for the immigrant population?

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

To be honest, it's difficult because while it is a provincial jurisdiction we do have a national goal and a standard that we want to set and an ideal we want to achieve, which is more Canadians learning more of Canada's past and learning more about our official languages and doing so effectively.

There's a challenge, because I think it would be wrong for the federal government to say to a province, “Here's money, but you only get it for your provincial jurisdiction if you do these things.” On the other hand, we do want to achieve things of national consequence and value.

The answer is that we have to sit down and negotiate. As you know, some provinces are very aggressive about not having the federal government do this at all, particularly the Province of Quebec, your home province.

I'll give you another example. Last week I had a meeting with Jackson Lafferty the minister of languages for the Northwest Territories. He is a phenomenal guy, but he struggles because in the Northwest Territories there are nine official languages. When the federal government comes in and funds one of the official languages of Canada and doesn't proportionately increase the support for aboriginal languages in the north, he says the problem with that is that it creates a backlash against the French fact in the north. That's an unhelpful thing. We need to make sure we work with provinces and territories so we can support the development of our official languages—including aboriginal languages, by the way—in the north. We do so in a way that isn't sort of bullying and pushing aside their local obligation to service local needs in aboriginal languages.

Anyhow, there's no simple answer to your question, but I'm trying to express that we understand the complexity of this, and every province and community in this country has its own stresses. Therefore it's equally important that we as a federal government approach it with that understanding of the need for flexibility.

[Tyrone Benskin, NDP, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

To enter the deep, dark waters of the 150th anniversary celebrations, I have said this before and I'm sure my colleagues are tired of hearing it, but to me language is an extension of culture. For me I think it's really, really important that we don't limit the celebrations to just having French and English events and that there's a real attempt to express to the west, for example, why French holds such an important place in the language structure. Why are we pushing—for lack of a better way of putting it—French as an official language? It's because of its heritage, because of its founding nature, because of the culture.

I think it's important that we include that in the 150th celebrations, not only as a linguistic thing but as a cultural thing. Would you agree with that?

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

Yes. You said you can't separate language and culture, and it's very true. One is an expression and celebration of the other. It's saying, “Yes, I speak French, and let me show you why I'm proud of it.” Whether it's Métis culture, Acadian culture, or Quebec culture, it's an expression of pride in the language you speak. We talk about it in a Canadian context, but as you know, francophones see themselves as part of a larger global Francophonie family, and they also see themselves in a very, very distinct minority in the North American dynamic. There's this sense of pride in a global context but also concern in a regional context that the French language and French culture not be lost and subsumed.

I can see the chair is doing a helicopter there with his pen.

It's very important that these things go hand in hand. Frankly they go hand in hand in a way that, I have to say, a lot of anglophone Canadians don't necessarily always fully appreciate, and it needs to be understood that way.

By the way, as a non-aboriginal I would never go into an aboriginal community and second-guess the way that language, culture, and expression is done within that community. There's a way in the French language and French cultures, as diverse as they are across the country, that arts and culture and language work hand in hand, and they need to be understood in that context.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Thank you very much. The helicopter has landed.

Go ahead, Mr. Wilks.

[David Wilks, Conservative, Kootenay—Columbia, BC]

I just wanted to continue on what Mr. Lauzon was saying. Certainly in my riding of Kootenay—Columbia, French is not dominant but, amazingly, with the four national parks that are in my riding, it becomes an issue because we have to be able to supply it to those who want it.

I know that the educational system is that one that is provincially required. But I wonder if you could continue on from your opening remarks with regard to developing the official language in the minority communities based upon smaller areas such as mine in southeast British Columbia.

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

Well, it's important, because if.... How do I say this? There are people of long-standing French lineage who live in communities that are seeing the francophone fact just slowly disappear and then kind of go away. You have people who might have last names like Leblanc ou Laframboise but who are English-speaking in their day-to-day lives because the French fact hasn't continued in operation.

That's partly why, in the feuille de route, for example, regional economic development agencies have funds—right, Hubert? He and I had a long conversation about that the other day.

That's one of the reasons why Western Economic Diversification, for example, is part of the feuille de route for official languages. They have set aside funding with the goal—frankly, the results are mixed—to support businesses that are operating in an official-language minority context and encourage them to be able to continue to provide that business experience and to continue to move forward so that we can protect the French fact.

I have to say that I don't want the experience I'm having in my home community of Maillardville to be the norm in the rest of the country. Maillardville is a community within the city of Coquitlam. The city of Coquitlam has about 130,000 people. Maillardville is the largest francophone settlement west of the Red River. It's quaint and it's cute. There are a lot of people there with French last names.

My alma mater, Maillardville junior secondary, is the best French immersion junior high school there, but Maillardville itself has almost become boutique. You go there and you see some French architecture, and you buy some bread, or you go to the Festival du Bois, but there isn't actually a vibrant French community there. It has just sort of withered away over time by population growth and the lack of a coherent strategy for the French fact there—other than for tourism: come and see what a French community lived like 200 years ago.

Well, that and fifty cents will get you a cup of coffee. I'd rather have a community that is vibrant and strong, that may be limited in numbers but that shows anglophone Canadians who live in the adjacent areas that you can live and be prosperous in two official languages; that actually you will have a bigger market for your goods; that you will have more social opportunities; that you might have better advancement in life if you are able to interact with people in more than one language; that this is a good thing, and here's a local example. Multiply it onto a global stage, and you can see that you're better off learning French.

We haven't done a great job of this in a lot of communities. Part of the road map is to do that, to have vibrant communities, not boutique communities, and have them grow across the country.

I think we're seeing results, based on my experience. And as you said, you have experiences in your riding. It's really important to try to engender that genuine health.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Thank you very much.

Ms. Michaud, you have the floor.

[Élaine Michaud, NDP, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Thank you very much.

I'd like to talk to you about the decision your government took in 2009 to amend the funding formula of the Aid to Publishers component of the Canada Periodical Fund. This change created a serious problem for the minority francophone press, who saw their funds cut; consequently, it has become very difficult for them to do their work effectively.

Have you met with representatives of the newspapers concerned, and with the Association de la presse francophone? What corrective measures do you intend to take, if any?

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

At the time, concerns were expressed about these changes, but before we brought them in, we held several consultations. We implemented the changes afterwards. We announced these changes over a year before they were brought in so that the newspapers could make their own internal changes. These changes have been quite a success, generally speaking. There have been some difficulties in the case of a few publications, but as you know—