Official Languages Committee on March 27th, 2014

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

I'm going to go to Madame Sellah right now because we need to give everybody a chance to ask questions and give comments.

[Djaouida Sellah, NDP, Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Thank you for having me, Mr. Chair. I am not a permanent member of this committee; I am replacing one of my colleagues.

Thanks to all the witnesses here today.

My question is for Mr. Tremblay.

A few official language stakeholders have told us about the trouble they have had accessing economic development services in the minority language in their region. You raised the same problem in your brief on the subject of francophone entrepreneurs in urban areas.

Could you tell me what challenges urban minority francophone entrepreneurs face and how the federal government might mitigate those difficulties?

[Marc S. Tremblay]

Thank you. That is a very good question.

The challenge for francophone entrepreneurs in urban areas is that it is hard for them to access funding for their businesses, both for start-ups and to secure working capital and liquidity.

Some specific communities have access to several programs, such as the Canadian Youth Business Foundation, programs for women entrepreneurs and those intended for aboriginal people. It is also possible to obtain funding in rural areas from Community Futures.

However, it is very hard if you are a francophone established in an urban area. You can go to a bank, but you have to do that in English. Some banks and credit cooperatives provide French-language services, but, to file a loan application, you have to complete documents in English and, as a general rule, submit a business plan in English as well. That is a challenge for some entrepreneurs who are not sufficiently proficient in English, and it is also a challenge in day-to-day communications.

The government could facilitate matters for us by requiring the chartered banks to design French-language forms that could be submitted in French outside Quebec.

I also think it would be worthwhile to work together with the Business Development Bank of Canada to facilitate francophones' access to financing.

[Djaouida Sellah, NDP, Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Thank you for your answer.

I have another question for you, one in the same vein. You say in your brief that funding from Canada's Roadmap for Official Languages 2013-2018 has not been indexed. What are the challenges associated with the offer of economic development services for francophone communities in Alberta given the increasingly limited financial resources?

[Marc S. Tremblay]

My colleagues addressed that question.

I really want to point out, however, that we are very grateful for the contributions we receive from certain departments and the Government of Canada. However, the situation regarding funding remains unchanged.

[Djaouida Sellah, NDP, Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Yes, that is what we have been told.

[Marc S. Tremblay]

There has been little or no increase in funding since the start, 10 years ago. Given increases in the cost of living, the reality is that we are working with approximately 20% less money than at the start. Consequently, as my colleague Robert mentioned, we cannot hire as many staff as previously. Rent is also more expensive. Everything is getting tougher.

In Alberta, we have entered into partnerships with other organizations in an attempt to make up the difference. In so doing, we have developed our entrepreneurial spirit. That moreover is what we preach: we want people to become entrepreneurs. We have established services and partnerships that have generated nearly an additional $100,000. We have managed on our own, but we nevertheless need an increase in the enabling fund and in other funding sources.

I would like to emphasize one interesting point. One of our funding agencies wanted to penalize us for doing a good job of managing the funds advanced to us. We put the funds in a bank account that paid little interest, 1% or 2%. It wanted to penalize us because we were thus able to earn about $1,000 more in interest over a one-year period. I find that absurd. We adopted good financial practices by investing the money, making sure that we generated a little more profit on the government's advances, and they wanted to penalize us. We ultimately negotiated and they accepted it. The fact remains that the contribution agreements provide that any interest we receive on the funds advanced may be deducted from the amount granted to us. I find that a bit ridiculous.

[Djaouida Sellah, NDP, Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC]

It is utterly absurd.

I see Mr. Léger would also like to respond.

Then I will have a question for Mr. Therrien.

[Jean Léger]

I would like to go back to the way the Government of Canada could provide more support for development. We essentially work with three or four federal government departments, such as ESDC—

[Djaouida Sellah, NDP, Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Heritage—

[Jean Léger]

Less so with Canadian Heritage because it operates more in the cultural field.

We also work with Industry Canada and Citizenship and Immigration Canada. However, many more departments and agencies in the federal government as a whole work in economic development. There are at least 20.

How can interdepartmental coordination be improved within the federal government when it comes to economic development of OLMCs? If you were to make a recommendation, it should be to encourage the departments that are slightly less inclined to work with the communities to do it more, in a coordinated way and by establishing good dialogue.

[Djaouida Sellah, NDP, Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Thank you for your recommendation, Mr. Léger.

My next question is for Mr. Therrien.

In 2012, the Conservative government cancelled the Co-operative Development Initiative. What do you think has been the main impact of that on the cooperative sector in Canada as a whole, on OLMCs and, especially, on the francophone community in western Canada?

[Robert Therrien]

In our case, cooperative development is not just a matter of projects. The cancellation has definitely had a major impact on rural communities. It has deprived them of a resource that was used of course for cooperative development. Consequently, nothing related to the development process is being done. The issue is not about managing an ad hoc project, but rather about being able to provide an extended service, tools for the communities to establish cooperatives, which constitute a major economic driver in Canada, more particularly in Saskatchewan.

We therefore had to abolish a number of services. As I said earlier, when funding is cut, we, like everyone, have to make choices and eliminate services.

Even if we can offer a limited service with existing staff, that is not a development service but rather a very ad hoc service at the outset, at start-up.

[Djaouida Sellah, NDP, Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC]

If funding is cut, you cancel services. That is logical.

[Robert Therrien]

Yes.

[Djaouida Sellah, NDP, Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Thank you.

Mr. Williamson, please.

[John Williamson, Conservative, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thanks to all the witnesses appearing here today.

My questions are for Mr. Tremblay and Mr. Therrien.

You spoke at length about francophones living in your provinces, Alberta and Saskatchewan. I would like to know a little more about the economy. Why do those francophones settle in your provinces? I imagine it is so that they can work. In what kind of industries do they work? What is the economic situation of francophones in those two provinces?

Mr. Therrien, you said that the economy was very strong, and you, Mr. Tremblay, that employers needed employees. Mr. Tremblay, you also said you would like workers to move to your province with their families. I come from New Brunswick, and I would prefer to have the workers from there who go to your province to come back to us. I imagine Mr. Godin will agree with me. We could probably offer them the same job opportunities in our province.

[Marc S. Tremblay]

I understand the difficulty, of course. If we welcome your workers and families to our province, that may cause a problem in yours. The fact remains, however, that your workers need work. If they stay in your province and have no work, they will look for and seize job opportunities elsewhere.

I believe that Air Canada and WestJet are businesses that employ the most workers from New Brunswick and Quebec who shuttle back and forth. Some of the people who settle temporarily in Alberta, say for 5 or 10 years, will make their fortunes and may one day return to their home province with their wealth. What is important is that, if the families follow the workers, their children will attend French-language schools. That will help enrich the francophone community in Alberta and that is what we would like.

Why do people choose to settle in Alberta? As you mentioned, it is because there are jobs there, jobs that pay quite well.

What industries do these francophone workers wind up in? Many obviously find jobs in the energy industry and in related services. The hotel and construction industries also attract a lot of workers. In short, francophone workers essentially occupy jobs in the energy, construction and tourism sectors.

[John Williamson, Conservative, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

Thank you very much, Mr. Tremblay.

Mr. Therrien, what do you think?

[Robert Therrien]

In the case of Saskatchewan, which these days is often nicknamed "the new Alberta", the industries are similar to those in Alberta.

There is a lot of work in construction. The mining sector is also very big in the province. A lot of mining development projects are under way or should start up in the next few years, in the potash sector, for example.

Why Saskatchewan? For years, Saskatchewan witnessed an exodus of its population, more particularly its young people. Like other Canadian provinces, we want to keep our young people at home.

In the past, young people left for lack of jobs. The population of Canada is much more mobile today than it has ever been, and that includes youth and labour in general. Workers today have an opportunity to settle in other parts of Canada with their families, to discover them and to work there.

It is not out of the question that they may return one day to live in their home province. As Mr. Tremblay said, I believe that those workers are only passing through Saskatchewan or Alberta and that they may one day go back and live in their province. I believe the main objective is above all to create wealth in Canada and to provide a higher standard of living for everyone. In this way, we are creating quite a strong pan-Canadian economy. The important thing is to understand that workers go wherever jobs are available. We have to think that these workers will probably want to return to their province one day once circumstances have changed.

[John Williamson, Conservative, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

Absolutely. We in the east are delighted with your great success, particularly in Saskatchewan. Ten years ago, Saskatchewan was in the same situation as the Atlantic provinces. All that has changed today thanks to energy, shale gas and all that. I congratulate you on that.

[Robert Therrien]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Mr. Godin now has the floor.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Tremblay, something you said struck a chord with me. Air Canada and WestJet may be making money, but grandparents like to have their grandchildren at home.