Evidence of meeting #16 for Official Languages in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was communities.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Marc S. Tremblay  President and Chief Executive Officer, Conseil de développement économique de l’Alberta
Robert Therrien  Executive Director, Conseil de la coopération de la Sasktchewan
John Buck  Executive Director, Community Economic Development and Employability Corporation
Jean Léger  Executive Director, Réseau de développement économique et d'employabilité (RDÉE) Canada

10 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Michael Chong

Thank you.

Mr. Therrien, you have the floor to respond.

10 a.m.

Executive Director, Conseil de la coopération de la Sasktchewan

Robert Therrien

I would like to add something. This is indeed complicated and it becomes even more so when you need to deal with four or five different departments. We need to do that because one department cannot fund a service that we offer when another one is doing it. It is for those kinds of reasons.

As for the way we operate, 14 of our employees serve the entire province. So they have to do a lot of travelling. We also have to serve somewhat remote communities.

What could we do to be more efficient? If I had a magic wand, I would like there to be one fund and for us to have a single report to submit to a group of departments. The economic committee that has been created around RDÉE Canada, on which several departments sit—

10 a.m.

Conservative

Joyce Bateman Conservative Winnipeg South Centre, MB

I would like clarification on one point. Are you required to prepare a lot of reports on federal government funding?

10 a.m.

Executive Director, Conseil de la coopération de la Sasktchewan

Robert Therrien

Yes, we have to file separate applications for different and complementary services. Several members of my staff and I spend a great deal of time performing administrative and managerial duties. We have to prepare reports to measure results and to ensure we achieve desired results, for example. A lot of administrative work has to be done. The fact that we have to deal with several departments results in a degree of inefficiency.

10 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Michael Chong

Thank you.

Mr. Nicholls, you have the floor.

10 a.m.

NDP

Jamie Nicholls NDP Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to talk with you, Mr. Buck, about the relevance of the enabling fund.

I am going to address the topic of research with Mr. Léger and Mr. Buck.

I'm glad that in your report you made the recommendation about continuing the investment of the enabling fund. It's important for leveraging, as you know, matching funds with other partners. Still, there are organizations in Quebec that need to depend on private fundraising, and they use a lot of their resources to do so. I believe the annual budget for the enabling fund right now stands at around $14 million.

10 a.m.

Executive Director, Community Economic Development and Employability Corporation

John Buck

It's $12.9 million.

10 a.m.

NDP

Jamie Nicholls NDP Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC

It's $12.9 million.

I will ask the question quite bluntly. Is that really sufficient to meet our needs as a francophone community? Do you think it's enough? We've been asking in the House about $10 billion unaccounted for in cuts in last year's budget. Doubling the enabling fund would represent 0.0028% of that $10 billion.

Wouldn't doubling the enabling fund in recognition of the economic importance of our communities help quite a bit?

10:05 a.m.

Executive Director, Community Economic Development and Employability Corporation

John Buck

The obvious answer is yes. I would come here and I would say that we need a lot of money, and we need it for a long time to do what we want to do, but I'm sure I'm not the only person who comes to testify before a committee who says that.

That being said, Mr. Nicholls, the $2.7 million that we see in Quebec, if we specify in Quebec; it's $12.9 million across the country, we’ve leveraged that across the country at a ratio of between three and four.... For every dollar that gets invested, we see $3 to $4 of economic impact, which represents a pretty impressive result and speaks to that economic engine piece I discussed before.

I want to tie your question to Ms. Bateman's because I think it speaks to a question of efficiency. Obviously, if we could double that, it would be wonderful, but continuity is important in enabling us as communities to be more efficient. As organizations, one of the ways we are able to achieve such tremendous results across the country, very impressive results I think you'll agree, is that we have developed and worked on our expertise as organizations. We can leverage resources, whether they be from a provincial government, a municipality, or the private sector, to complete activities and projects that are going to have meaningful results for citizens in our communities.

I think that the maintenance of it, the fact that it enables our organizations to build that essential core expertise, gives us the capacity to be very efficient. In the absence of that, if we had to work in a project environment, it would be very difficult to have that expertise and to build relationships. In our instance, this year in Quebec we've built over 250 partnerships. Those partnerships in many cases enable us to invest in projects directly. In many cases, and I gave an example in the Gaspésie, only 10% of the project is coming through federal government funding. The rest of it is from a number of different stakeholders.

Investing for a long time with as many resources as possible in the enabling fund is a terrifically successful strategy, and I think a very efficient one at the same time.

March 27th, 2014 / 10:05 a.m.

NDP

Jamie Nicholls NDP Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC

Obviously, your organizations have done their homework in increasing efficiency, and I think it's time to reward those successes by increasing those funds. When you mentioned “continue investments”, that might be read as just keeping the status quo, which would be great. But from what you've said, I think that increasing those funds would expand your economic potential.

My second question touches on

research. You mentioned a number of times that more research on the communities would be a benefit and would help you achieve your objectives more effectively. What kind of tools are you thinking of using to gather information?

10:05 a.m.

Executive Director, Réseau de développement économique et d'employabilité (RDÉE) Canada

Jean Léger

I think we could definitely involve researchers such as the people from the Conference Board of Canada. They have already prepared a study demonstrating the value added of linguistic duality in Canada. I think we should try to rely on that kind of study to prove, as Mr. Buck said a little earlier, the value that this linguistic duality adds for the country.

The idea would also be to see how we might target the issue more accurately and find solutions to specific economic development issues. I mentioned two in my brief. For example, are there any specific characteristics of the francophone and Acadian communities that relate to the challenge that entrepreneurial succession represents? Our goal in a way is to analyze that and to come up with recommendations and solutions. Then we can go see the government people to put in place the tools that will assist in entrepreneurial succession or in business development.

The whole employability component is also extremely important in some communities. How can we do better to help people enter the labour market? How can we connect workers with available jobs?

A lot of cooperative and collaborative work remains to be done on these issues, but specific data has to be obtained before the players are brought together. What are the promising sectors? Are our youth in the right programs?

In short, I think a lot of this kind of very targeted research could help further stimulate the economies of the regions.

10:10 a.m.

NDP

Jamie Nicholls NDP Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC

What I'm asking is who is going to do the research and what kind of research? Is it going to be Statistics Canada? Is it going to be the Conference Board? Who are you envisioning in terms of research gathering on the communities? Will it be the federal government?

10:10 a.m.

Executive Director, Community Economic Development and Employability Corporation

John Buck

I think that depends, really. In terms of some of the larger socio-economic information, it makes sense for us to be working with institutions that have a good scope, a good understanding, and have the credibility, like the organizations that you've mentioned. In other instances, it may be someone who is simply engaged so that we can learn for a very specific purpose, a very specific project or activity that we need just-in-time information about. It will depend, I think.

10:10 a.m.

NDP

Jamie Nicholls NDP Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC

Do you think a more robust census would be beneficial?

10:10 a.m.

Executive Director, Community Economic Development and Employability Corporation

John Buck

The census information is always useful. Yesterday there was a release of some information specifically for official language minority communities that's extremely useful. It is useful. We need it in a timely way as well. That's another aspect of this that's important.

We talked earlier about a global economy that moves very rapidly. We have to be looking at information today. We have to be forecasting 10 to 20 years from now. I think the nimbleness of the information is as important as anything else. I think that absolutely anyone who can bring good relevant information to the table should be brought to the table.

10:10 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Michael Chong

Thank you very much, Mr. Nicholls.

Mr. Daniel.

10:10 a.m.

Conservative

Joe Daniel Conservative Don Valley East, ON

Thank you, witnesses, for being here.

I'm left with the impression that a lot of the francophonie businesses, the minority community businesses, are still struggling to find their place in Canada, and as such, what is a francophonie or an Acadian business? Is it something that is part of the mainstream or is it separate from that?

Let's start with Mr. Tremblay.

10:10 a.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Conseil de développement économique de l’Alberta

Marc S. Tremblay

In Alberta's francophone community, francophone entrepreneurs also have to provide services to the anglophone majority. Very few francophone entrepreneurs can earn a living solely from their francophone clientele. However, some, such as Web developers and consultants, focus on the francophone community.

We are part of the majority and therefore cannot work in isolation. We are connected to the anglophone majority.

These entrepreneurs nevertheless retain their francophone identity. Being able to provide French-language services is a value added, a competitive advantage for them.

10:10 a.m.

Executive Director, Conseil de la coopération de la Sasktchewan

Robert Therrien

There definitely are francophone businesses in our case. Earlier I cited the example of Bourgault Industries in the community of St. Brieux, Saskatchewan. It is a manufacturer that does business internationally. There are others in the community. However, they are not players that deal with us since they have far more resources than we do. In some cases, these businesses have 1,200 to 1,500 employees, and some operate on a large scale in international markets.

The clientele we mostly serve in our rural communities consists of micro-businesses that operate on a local and regional scale.

10:10 a.m.

Executive Director, Réseau de développement économique et d'employabilité (RDÉE) Canada

Jean Léger

The definition of a francophone business varies with the people we talk to. However, four important parameters should be considered.

The first parameter is territory. A business located in Caraquet, on the Acadian Peninsula in New Brunswick, will obviously be a francophone business in most cases.

There is also the French-language services aspect. Businesses in Halifax or Edmonton may also offer French-language services and are therefore receptive to high-quality services in the official language of the client's choice.

Another parameter is ownership of the business. In some cases, a business belongs entirely to a francophone, or it may be subject to co-ownership. A man and a woman or an anglophone and a francophone may own a business.

I believe that one other aspect is very important in the definition of a francophone business, and that is the business's involvement in the community. I will cite a specific example. I have lived in Halifax for 25 years and am a member of the Chambre de commerce francophone d'Halifax. Some board members are not necessarily francophones. They are francophiles, people like you, anglophones who speak French. They are involved in the francophone economy and in the francophone community. In some cases, these anglophone entrepreneurs who speak French contribute to a theatre play or a club at a community school centre. In those cases, I believe you can say they are francophone businesses.

This is how we try to determine what francophone businesses are. However, this is an important research issue. We find it hard to determine what constitutes a francophone business. We can put the question to Industry Canada, for example, which works with the business sector, but how do we know whether we have the right information given the way the questions are asked and the four parameters that I have presented to you? We need more research—again it comes back to research—to determine to a large extent what the francophone businesses are. Our organization wants to support the francophone economy or the francophone economic space, but we have to know what our clientele is.

We know certain aspects, but we would like to take the research further.

10:15 a.m.

Executive Director, Community Economic Development and Employability Corporation

John Buck

Thank you for the question, Mr. Daniel.

10:15 a.m.

Conservative

Joe Daniel Conservative Don Valley East, ON

A short answer, Mr. Buck.

10:15 a.m.

Executive Director, Community Economic Development and Employability Corporation

John Buck

Quickly, I would agree with everything my colleagues have shared.

I think the language of business among many business owners is business, and an interesting point is that among all of us in Quebec, a lot of our English-speaking entrepreneurs sell exclusively French-speaking products and services, and conversely, a lot of our French-speaking entrepreneurs in other parts of the country sell almost exclusively in some instances products and services that are geared for an English-speaking market. I think, yes, they are present and they are successful in many cases, and in some cases not. In some cases they require special services. We can better meet their needs, and all of us do that through services that we provide.

I think the other piece, though, and a very important piece is that we are, among us, part of what I would almost call a privileged group that recognized this economic opportunity at this point. Part of our challenge is to make sure that the rest of our community, the whole community, recognizes the added value of our linguistic minority communities. The “Canada, Bilingualism and Trade” report I mentioned earlier helps us to persuade a lot of people that, yes, there's a tremendous economic benefit here, and the Canadian plan for economic development that we talked about earlier has been quite revealing for us as we've gone outside of our communities, in some cases, to consult. We found large chambers of commerce, large enterprises, governments, in some instances, that have said that they never really contemplated the official language minority community entrepreneurs and businesses before, and they'd like to learn more about that. There's some opportunity there, I think, for all of us.

10:15 a.m.

Conservative

Joe Daniel Conservative Don Valley East, ON

Thank you very much.

Further to that question, I noticed that all of you have said you have sent out questionnaires to your communities and businesses to find out information. Have you actually done any work relating to that, that actually tries to identify the gap in skills needed for your community businesses? Certainly, I've visited a number of companies in the Montreal area, and they are showing growth of something like 30% a year. Yet, when we look at the education system, that is, the francophone education system for engineers, etc., there's a very limited opportunity for people to actually graduate with technical degrees in French.

Could you comment on that?

10:15 a.m.

Executive Director, Conseil de la coopération de la Sasktchewan

Robert Therrien

In terms of skills levels, certainly we work with the province. The province does a lot of research. We don't have the capacity financially or otherwise to do that kind of research. In terms of trying to identify skills gaps and stuff like that, certainly in Saskatchewan right now, that's identified on a regular basis by the provincial government.

We try to work closely with our colleagues in the provincial government to respond to some of those needs. We also work with employers and with individuals who are looking for employment, certainly the migrant population of Canada from the east who are coming toward Saskatchewan and Alberta, and also with immigrants coming in. We do identify the needs. We do work with industry, with the provincial government, to try to respond to those needs.