Public Accounts Committee on Dec. 9th, 2013

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, NDP, David Christopherson]

Very good. Thank you, colleagues.

We'll start again, and Vice-Chair Carmichael will kick things off.

You have the floor, sir.

[John Carmichael, Conservative, Don Valley West, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'm going to address these questions to you, Mr. Slinn, if I may.

The Auditor General's office found that the RCMP does not use performance information to guide its resource allocation decisions. That's from page 21 of the report, paragraph 5.66.

You also state the following in your brief:

The RCMP's Management Action Plan will include: A new Program Alignment Architecture (PAA) and Performance Measurement Framework (PMF); a new approach to managing operational information; and new Service Delivery Model and dictionary.

You go on to talk about 2015-16 as an implementation target date.

What happens between now and then? What basis does the RCMP currently use to make resource allocation decisions for its integrated border enforcement teams and its marine security teams? How does the RCMP ensure that its resource allocation decisions are effective at mitigating the risk for Canadians?

[C/Supt Eric Slinn]

First of all, with the federal policing program of the RCMP, we've re-engineered that in the past year to year and a half. The premise of reorganizing our federal policing program was to become more effective, more efficient, to target the criminal groups, the criminality that poses the greatest threat to Canadians. We needed the flexibility to target those greatest threats.

One of the things we've implemented to do that is a prioritization matrix. Within that prioritization matrix, we have a number of categories that we look at. Is it a Government of Canada priority? Is it a priority to the RCMP? Does it impact on the economic integrity of Canada? Is there violence involved?

There's a litany of things we measure to determine where we're going to focus our efforts, where we're going to focus our resources, and through that we hope to be able to measure more effectively the impact we're making.

One of the other areas within federal policing that we've sort of realigned is an area called operational information management. It's there to collect that statistical data that will tell us, first of all, if we're making a difference, or if our resources are allocated appropriately. We're also still using provincial and national threat assessments, which also incorporate some of other law enforcement partners.

When we bundle all that together, we're hopeful that we'll be able to tell that story to Canadians, to be more efficient and effective in terms of the money we're given through the public coffers, that we are doing the job that we're paid to do.

In answer to your question, we will have that statistical information going forward right now, but as months go on, we will get better and better and we'll have perhaps a broader area of information to provide.

[John Carmichael, Conservative, Don Valley West, ON]

As I understand it, then, we're talking more of an integration of the various levels of information that are flowing to you right now.

[C/Supt Eric Slinn]

Correct.

[John Carmichael, Conservative, Don Valley West, ON]

When the AG's office is saying that information is not available, or you're not measuring today, how will the new tools that you're going to implement in 2015-16 actually change the way you do business from what you're doing today?

[C/Supt Eric Slinn]

We're going to institute different systems and practices.

A lot of that information was potentially there, but for the OAG to spend an inordinate amount of time to extrapolate that, it would not be fair to them. That wouldn't be doing our job.

The information is within our systems, but we need to retool those systems and our practices to demonstrate that, yes, here is the information, so that the next time an audit comes around, we can demonstrate that clearly.

[John Carmichael, Conservative, Don Valley West, ON]

From an operational perspective, as you work to integrate the information flow to make better decisions, your overall decision-making capacity is improving, you're creating matrices. They'll be readily available. I don't want to put words in your mouth. I'm just trying to interpret here, so correct me if I'm straying from the message. You're creating matrices that are helping you to make better decisions as you work your way through reallocation of resources.

[C/Supt Eric Slinn]

It will help us make better decisions and demonstrate to you and the Canadian public that we have a reason behind our decisions. I think that in the past we couldn't necessarily justify to the extent we should have, for example, that we're going after that organized crime group in that portion of the country with that amount of resources, and here's why. We couldn't tell the story as effectively as we should have been able to. I'm confident that going forward, with this prioritization matrix and the systems and practices we've put in place, we'll be able to do that.

[John Carmichael, Conservative, Don Valley West, ON]

Very good. Thank you.

[The Chair, NDP, David Christopherson]

Excellent. Thank you so much.

Moving along, you have the floor, Monsieur Giguère.

[Alain Giguère, NDP, Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

A little earlier, we saw that no one took responsibility for illegally transferring medical files. Unfortunately, we know that the medical files of Canadian citizens were passed on to a foreign government. I hope we will identify the person responsible for that mistake — I hope that it was one — and that the necessary changes will be made.

That causes a problem for biometrics. During a meeting of another committee, the Standing Committee on Citizenship and Immigration, representatives from various services told us that biometrics were the way of the future and would truly protect Canadians from individuals who lend their passports to their brother, their sister, or to people who should not enter Canada. The problem is not with the reliability of biometric technology, which is highly developed, but with the safety of information transmitted to you, in particular information on Canadians.

We have already been told that it's almost impossible, in the case of problems that are relatively much simpler, to bring information together so that people don't enter Canada when they are not authorized to do so. That requires a major change. How are you going to undertake that change?

[Martin Bolduc]

When you talk about biometrics, you are in fact referring to a Citizenship and Immigration program. Thanks to that program, when a person shows up at a point of entry with a visa, our officers can use the system to ensure that the person who is in front of them is the person to whom the visa was issued, so as to prevent people from substituting photos.

With regard to protection of personal information, the two legal documents that we use a great deal are the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act and the Customs Act. Those two acts impose very strict conditions on protecting personal information and sharing it.

Moreover, the Privacy Commissioner of Canada ensures that the various departments address that issue very carefully. There are very strict guidelines regarding information that may be shared and used.

[C/Supt Eric Slinn]

I can't add much to that other than to say that organizationally the RCMP balances the charter rights of people. We're inherently aware of the charter and our obligations to that and to protecting private information in investigations. We've been involved in national security investigations and we've been through some inquiries, so I'd like to think we're well versed in protecting those privacy interests.

[Alain Giguère, NDP, Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC]

Ms. Loschiuk, perhaps you have some information to share with us on that subject?

[Wendy Loschiuk]

In fact, we did not deal with the issue of protecting information in our report.

[Alain Giguère, NDP, Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC]

Mr. Chairman, briefly, may I ask another question?

[The Chair, NDP, David Christopherson]

Okay.

[Alain Giguère, NDP, Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC]

You said that front line services for the RCMP and services for border security were not affected. However, in that kind of battle, which is often against organized crime, what is important are the investigative services, in other words, investigating what is happening beyond our borders.

Moreover, a tactical unit was created to counter human trafficking. Do units like that have the resources they need?

[C/Supt Eric Slinn]

I think my colleague from CBSA answered appropriately earlier in that the RCMP and the CBSA have liaison officers strategically positioned around the world. The role of those liaison officers is to build networks with other law enforcement intelligence agencies to ensure that we can disrupt, or bring to justice, those individuals who are potentially organizing ventures to bring illegal migrants back into the country.

I think if you look historically, if we go back 10 years, we typically waited for the problems to come to our border. We've been very aggressive and very assertive in taking the fight offshore and quite effective and efficient in doing so. This is where it gets down to performance measures again. If we interdict or stop a venture from coming to Canada, we save Canadian taxpayers a significant amount of money which we wouldn't if that venture boat landed on our shores.

I think we're doing a very good job collectively. We leverage the authorities of CBSA that the RCMP doesn't have in their intelligence networks abroad. We work very cohesively in that regard to protect Canadians here.

[The Chair, NDP, David Christopherson]

Very good. Thank you. Time has expired.

We go now to Mr. Woodworth. You have the floor, sir.

[Stephen Woodworth, Conservative, Kitchener Centre, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'll continue on the question of advanced notification and those items. I'll ask Ms. Soper if she knows how many advanced notifications are issued on average in a year by the CBSA.

[Lesley Soper]

I think that goes back to the earlier question about how many targets are issued by our targeting centre. Is that the question?

[Stephen Woodworth, Conservative, Kitchener Centre, ON]

It is if that's the same thing as an advance notification. The Auditor General's report refers to advance notifications from targeters, so I assume it's the same thing.