Public Accounts Committee on Oct. 30th, 2014

[Michael Ferguson]

We refer to coherence starting in paragraph 27. In there, the first thing that we do is define what coherence is, which is the degree to which the information can be successfully brought together with other statistical information within a broad analytical framework and over time.

In paragraph 29 we say that:

We found that Statistics Canada adheres to international standards, definitions, and classifications for industry and occupation for the Consumer Price Index, the Labour Force Survey, the National Household Survey, and the Survey of Employment, Payrolls and Hours. The Agency also routinely compares data from multiple sources...

The other thing that we refer to is the change in the survey method from the long form census to the national household survey, and the fact that the agency identified that this could have an effect on comparability and that it informed its users to use that information with caution. In general, I think that covers the findings we had on the quality element of coherence.

[John Carmichael, Conservative, Don Valley West, ON]

Thank you.

I have a few more brief questions, Mr. Ferguson.

In your opening remarks you stated that from the four data products officially used over the period, the agency:

...generated data from the four data products officially over the audit period. We found that Statistics Canada had identified and implemented a number of approaches that resulted in more efficient use of resources. These included...

and you named the two:

...using common corporate services and identifying alternate data sources.

I wonder if you could just briefly give a couple of other examples of where the agency is using resources more efficiently.

[Michael Ferguson]

I think the agency could give you more detail, but where we're dealing with efficient resources starts in paragraph 62. In particular we say in paragraph 64 that the agency had put in place 15 of 37 planned initiatives to improve efficiency. Then we say at the end of paragraph 64:

For example, in 2012, respondents to the business survey component of the Survey of Employment, Payrolls and Hours were given the option of completing questionnaires online instead of by mail or telephone.

At the time that we finished the audit there were still 22 efficiency initiatives that the agency had scheduled, which had not been put in place at that point in time.

[John Carmichael, Conservative, Don Valley West, ON]

But overall a pretty solid report.

[Michael Ferguson]

We were satisfied to see that they had a plan to put in place some efficiency initiatives. They had made progress on that. They had more to do. What we found there was that they were turning their attention to the idea of producing the information efficiently.

[John Carmichael, Conservative, Don Valley West, ON]

Thank you.

What's my time, Chair?

[The Chair, NDP, David Christopherson]

One minute.

[John Carmichael, Conservative, Don Valley West, ON]

Mr. Ferguson, could you explain Statistics Canada's quality assurance framework and how you would assess the quality assurance process in terms of the surveys audited?

[Michael Ferguson]

In less than a minute, I don't think I can describe all of their quality frameworks.

[John Carmichael, Conservative, Don Valley West, ON]

Yes, I know.

[Michael Ferguson]

What I will say is that there are six attributes in their framework, and in the audit we dealt with all of them. There was accuracy, timeliness, accessibility, coherence, relevance, and interpretability. Overall, in many of those we found a lot of good things going on. The places where we had some concerns were on relevance and interpretability, in particular having some more up-to-date guidelines for people to understand the data and to have some fuller conversations with the users, as has been talked about already today, to identify some of the needs that the users were identifying.

[The Chair, NDP, David Christopherson]

Well done, thank you. Good stuff all around.

Now over to Mr. Simms, whom I'm pleased to welcome back to this committee as a former member. Always pleased to see you here, sir. You now have the floor.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

Upon hearing the news of my return, I was downright giddy at the prospect.

[The Chair, NDP, David Christopherson]

So were we.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

It's nice to be back. Folks, it's nice to see you as well.

I will just get right into it. In chapter 8, section 8.53, I was alarmed to hear some of the words being used:

25 percent of geographic areas do not have reliable National Household Survey data available for their use.

That is part of the process of going to the voluntary survey, obviously, when you talk about a 94% to 69% drop, which we've already talked about.

One of the things I find alarming is that, when you look at policies such as, say, the temporary foreign worker program, you have to come up with your labour market opinion in order to do this. I'll use an example that comes from the person I'm replacing, Ms. Yvonne Jones from Labrador. The unemployment rate in her area is around 5% or 6%, but in western Newfoundland it's well above that. It's around 13% to 15%. If you lump all this in together, as a result, you have businesses closing down in Labrador because they cannot find employees. This is a problem because we don't have a true reflection there.

To Mr. Ferguson, I think that's what you're pointing out in the survey. Is that correct?

[Michael Ferguson]

I think you've connected two different things that I'm not able to connect, but certainly what we've identified in the audit—and it was simply reiterating what Statistics Canada determined—was that caution needed to be used with some of the data. As specific data, they were unable to release data about 3% of the population in the 2011 survey versus the 1% of the population for the 2006 census, but I can't really relate that to any specific use of the data. That's just sort of the general concept, and the impact that would have had would have depended on each of the users of the data.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

The other thing that concerns me is that, if you look at Service Canada, it is endeavouring to match people with available positions, certain skills, certain positions. I come from an area where skilled trades have now quickly become one of our greatest exports. As we spend time away and come back, we still live in our region, but we travel, not just across Canada but around the world. In this case, obviously, we're just talking about Canada. This is from section 8.50:

...the data on job vacancies from this survey has limitations. For vacancies reported at the national, provincial, and territorial level, it is not possible to determine where in a province or territory these job vacancies are located.

That caused me great concern, because what ends up happening here is that people are not getting matched with the right work simply because of lack of information in this particular case.

Would I be correct in saying that?

[Michael Ferguson]

What we identified here was that the survey of employment, payrolls, and hours was a survey that was being done. There were a couple of questions that were trying to deal with some information about job vacancies, but in that particular product the information wasn't at the level of the municipality or the region or that sort of thing, the community within the province.

To find out the type of information that would be specific to a particular community, another mechanism would have to have been used other than this particular survey. It was something we identified in paragraph 8.48, that there was a panel in 2009 that noted the need for local data on job vacancies by both occupation and location. At the time, this particular mechanism for collecting statistics on employment was not providing the data at the level of the local community.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

Certainly it was not, and it's of great concern to me and to others. Earlier you talked about compliance of the corporate sector. It seems to me that, in the future, it's going to be difficult, perhaps even more difficult, for companies to use it to find employees, certainly when you get down to specialized trades and certain skills, because there don't seem to be any changes here to lead me to believe that situation is going to change whatsoever.

Then providing the information from Statistics Canada really doesn't become that much more beneficial.

[Michael Ferguson]

I think Stats Canada would have to answer about what they've done and what they're doing on this particular issue.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

Mr. Smith.

[The Chair, NDP, David Christopherson]

Reply briefly, Mr. Smith, very briefly.

[Wayne Smith]

I can't deal with it briefly, so I'll....

[The Chair, NDP, David Christopherson]

I can't help the clock. It's been five and a half minutes; he gets five. I'm already being generous. Please continue.

[Wayne Smith]

Essentially, I can't answer the question in terms of the policy on the employment of temporary foreign workers. I can tell you that we used to have a survey of job vacancies many years ago. It was cut by the government at one point—this was in the 1970s—because it was felt that it was not necessary for the purposes of the government. We began to reintroduce the notion of job vacancies into our surveys.

I agree with the conclusion of the Auditor General, that in fact the data is very thin and not responsive, not helpful in analyzing local labour markets.

The survey I was describing to you moments ago, which we're in the process of putting in place, will answer that requirement.