Evidence of meeting #10 for Public Safety and National Security in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was inmates.
A recording is available from Parliament.
11:30 a.m.
NDP
Randall Garrison NDP Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca, BC
Okay.
Mr. Putnam, you talked about raising the standard. Can you tell me a little more about what you mean by that? You've used that phrase a couple of times.
11:30 a.m.
As an Individual
Are you referring to the standards within the correctional facility?
11:30 a.m.
NDP
Randall Garrison NDP Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca, BC
You've talked about raising the standard. You said it a couple of times, so I'm just asking.
11:30 a.m.
As an Individual
Training is certainly one thing.
Perhaps I'm a little off base on this, but I've got a pretty good idea of what police officers in this country go through as far as training. I'm not sure if correctional officers are at that same level, so that standard has to be raised up.
They've got to continue to look for the best people. We always see on TV advertisements to join the military and the RCMP. I don't live in Ontario, but perhaps it's the OPP. When was the last time anybody saw an advertisement on TV advertising positions in a correctional facility? That's one of the ways the standards can be raised.
Addictions training is important. People have to understand that if they're working with people with addictions and they're saying they have a disease, but they don't really believe that.... Everybody in this room will admit that addiction is a disease. How many people in this room really believe that, that addictions are on par with cancer? I didn't. Not for years. I do now. I see it.
The training standards.... Some of their uniforms, you know....
11:35 a.m.
NDP
Randall Garrison NDP Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca, BC
I think we have time for one quick question and a quick response.
I'm not familiar with the Whitehorse Correctional Centre. Can you tell me what kinds of pressures it might be under? Is it usually full? Is there double bunking? Are these kinds of things normal? And will that get solved with a new correctional centre?
11:35 a.m.
As an Individual
At the moment we are full, and that's why this new facility is being built. We've got, I think, a $67 million facility that's just being built. We should be moving into it this spring. At that point, it should be single bunking.
11:35 a.m.
As an Individual
We are in a dorm situation where everything is double bunked. We've got 26--
11:35 a.m.
NDP
11:35 a.m.
As an Individual
That was a central cell block. It wasn't full, but, yes, there were four people in that one cell.
11:35 a.m.
NDP
11:35 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson
All right. Thank you, Mr. Garrison.
Now we will move back to the government side, to Ms. Young.
11:35 a.m.
Conservative
Wai Young Conservative Vancouver South, BC
I want to join my colleagues in saying thank you so much for coming today, and for sharing your stories and these real-life experiences, which we are already learning from—I most certainly am.
If I may, I'll share with you some of the testimony that we've heard from various witnesses. I'm going to pull various threads and themes that we've heard. I want to reassess those themes with you to see if you agree or disagree with them.
We've heard that 80% of the people who become incarcerated, at the time of their crime, were under the influence of drugs and alcohol. That was a significant influence on them, which is why they were involved in that crime.
We've also heard that upon entering the facility.... The Conservative government approved $122 million in additional funding some three years ago, which has contributed to the possibility of these drug prevention programs, as well as the health assessments and mental health assessments that are now going on within 90 days of the inmate's incarceration.
We've heard from the head of Corrections that this has resulted in a decrease in inmates participating in drugs and alcohol within prison, from 12% of testing to 7.5% of testing.
We've heard that the prisons have now become a target—the men's prisons more than the women's—as a hub for criminal activity, as Mr. Putnam was saying.
We have also heard that the inmates want treatment, and in some cases they even want to stay to complete their treatment. Whether it's because of a transfer they're coming up against, or because their time is up, they would actually prefer to stay that extra couple of weeks or a month, or whatever it takes, to complete their treatment.
Would you agree with some of these things that we've heard? Has that been your experience?
11:35 a.m.
As an Individual
Yes, I would agree with that; it sounds pretty close to right on. Even in Whitehorse—the small area that we are—that's pretty accurate.
11:35 a.m.
Conservative
11:35 a.m.
As an Individual
For the most part, I think I'd agree with the statements that have been made.
I can't put a percentage on it, but I know that it pretty much correlates with the people who I've dealt with on the streets over the years. I'd say perhaps close to 80% of those I ever arrested were under the influence of some sort of substance. That's not uncommon. We used to say in the police world that if there was no alcohol in the country, there would be no police; there would be no need for them.
So yes, those are fairly accurate statements.
11:35 a.m.
Conservative
Wai Young Conservative Vancouver South, BC
I have a number of very specific questions after this. Would you give me your experiences in terms of these prisons that have now become drug hubs? Mr. Van De Mortel, working inside, and, Mr. Putnam, in terms of working on the outside, do you think there are more measures that this government can put in place?
We've heard that due to the investment of $122 million from this Conservative government, across the country there's been a forward, positive movement in terms of cutting down on drugs and alcohol in prisons. What are we doing around supporting that externally, particularly with the prisons being hubs of all of these activities?
We've also heard from officers that these are complex systems now, as you were saying. The gangs are involved, and very often the money doesn't even go inside but to, one may say, offshore accounts or whatever. This is all happening and revolving around the prison.
The prison is actually just a place where these things—the threats, the drugs, the sales, and the money—happen. But so much of the actual organization—money, pressures, and everything—happens outside. And as in the case of your son, things are even being planned before and after the fact. What can we do to work on those aspects?
11:40 a.m.
As an Individual
I wish I had a quick answer for you. Let's put it this way. In the drug world, the high-end drug dealers don't need the prisons to survive or make a living. That's minimal to them. There are thousands of people across the country, outside of prisons, who will use and get drugs.
The fact is that there are a lot of inmates within the prison system who want the drugs. Where there's a want, somebody is going to provide it.
Getting back to healing and drug programs, I think that's the bottom line. Again, all this goes back to the guys on the floor—the inmates—who want the programs to be implemented. And the more of that you do, eventually you're going to reduce the amount of drugs within the system, but it really starts with the inmates wanting the drugs. A lot of them are coming in addicted, and they're in the system for six months to a year, maybe two years. If they don't get the treatment programs they should be getting, they're going to go back out on the street, and nothing changes.
I'm not sure if that answers your question or not, but....
11:40 a.m.
Conservative
Wai Young Conservative Vancouver South, BC
Very quickly, Mr. Van De Mortel, do you have a response to that?
11:40 a.m.
As an Individual
No, actually, I don't. I'm more inside, dealing with that. There can always be more, in Whitehorse anyway. There's not enough help for them on the outside.
11:40 a.m.
Conservative
Wai Young Conservative Vancouver South, BC
Just to reaffirm, you did not feel that the double-bunking situation contributed to your injury?