Evidence of meeting #36 for Public Safety and National Security in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was restitution.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Ross Toller  Deputy Commissioner, Transformation and Renewal Team, Correctional Service of Canada
Alexandra Budgell  Counsel, Department of Justice
Susan O'Sullivan  Federal Ombudsman for Victims of Crime, Office of the Federal Ombudsman for Victims of Crime

4:25 p.m.

Deputy Commissioner, Transformation and Renewal Team, Correctional Service of Canada

Ross Toller

I'm trying to sort it through. My experience tells me that it's likely no. Often, when they're looking at elements, they're not doing it to make the service better. Sometimes that is very much the outcome of what you've talked about. But speaking intuitively from my experience, I don't think it would have a great dissuasive impact. If they feel aggrieved, if they feel wronged, they will take the actions that they feel are necessary.

4:25 p.m.

NDP

John Rafferty NDP Thunder Bay—Rainy River, ON

Actually I said that was the last question, but I have another one.

Have I run out of time?

4:25 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson

Mr. Rafferty, I wish I could hear more from you—

4:25 p.m.

NDP

John Rafferty NDP Thunder Bay—Rainy River, ON

No one interrupted me, so I thought I could continue.

4:25 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson

—but our time is up. Unfortunately, I had a great question that Mr. Norlock was just waiting for, but I won't be able to ask it either.

I want to thank both of you for appearing today on behalf of the Correctional Service of Canada. There may be a time when we would like to receive more information on some of these accounts that offenders have and some of the dynamic of how these work, so we may make another request of you.

But at this point our time is up. We will suspend to get ready for our next group now.

Mr. Garrison.

4:25 p.m.

NDP

Randall Garrison NDP Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca, BC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to raise a point of order. We launched into our hearings on this bill without any specific plan for the number of sessions. Perhaps what I'm really asking, because we have other business for the committee.... We have asked for the minister to appear on estimates. Then maybe we need a session on committee business. Maybe that's really what I'm asking, so that we can get an idea of the amount of time we intend to spend on the bill. I don't think there is any controversy to what I'm saying, it's just that we haven't done that as a group.

4:25 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson

I don't know if that's a real point of order, but I'll certainly take it up.

Generally with studies, we would allocate so many days to the individual study we've asked for. Legislation can be somewhat different. As we get into the bill, depending on how big the bill is, there may be a difference. I don't think we have allocated anything.

4:30 p.m.

Conservative

Candice Bergen Conservative Portage—Lisgar, MB

We haven't. We just agreed on an agenda.

But maybe what Mr. Garrison is asking for—and I would be fine with it—is that at the next meeting we should take the last 15 minutes, go in camera, and then regroup on committee business and future business. Let's do that.

4:30 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson

I know we have asked for witnesses. Is that correct? We do have witnesses on this.

4:30 p.m.

Conservative

Candice Bergen Conservative Portage—Lisgar, MB

We have, because there was a deadline for witnesses.

4:30 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson

The witnesses have been notified. My sense is that we would go through this witness list and then proceed to amendments or—

4:30 p.m.

Conservative

Candice Bergen Conservative Portage—Lisgar, MB

We would be able to have the conversation.

4:30 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson

Yes. I think we're still—

4:30 p.m.

NDP

Randall Garrison NDP Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca, BC

The departmental secretary and I may have a conversation, but my recollection is that on two previous bills we dealt with, we did allocate sessions. That was bill C-19?

4:30 p.m.

Conservative

Candice Bergen Conservative Portage—Lisgar, MB

That was on bill [Inaudible--Editor].

4:30 p.m.

NDP

Randall Garrison NDP Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca, BC

Yes, I remember that one.

4:30 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson

Just looking at the witness list, I don't think it's going to be a long.... Maybe that's something we'll do at committee business.

4:30 p.m.

NDP

Randall Garrison NDP Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca, BC

Okay.

4:30 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson

I think there's a will to have that type of thing.

4:30 p.m.

Conservative

Candice Bergen Conservative Portage—Lisgar, MB

Yes, leave 15 minutes at the next meeting.

4:30 p.m.

NDP

Randall Garrison NDP Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca, BC

We'll try to give ourselves a little more direction.

4:30 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson

Mr. Toller is sitting here saying, “Can you do this after I'm gone?”

4:30 p.m.

Deputy Commissioner, Transformation and Renewal Team, Correctional Service of Canada

Ross Toller

Yes, I know.

4:30 p.m.

Voices

Oh, oh!

4:30 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson

Thank you both very much for attending.

We are suspended