Very soon.
Evidence of meeting #43 for Public Safety and National Security in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was net.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Evidence of meeting #43 for Public Safety and National Security in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was net.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:10 p.m.
Voices
Oh, oh!
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
Vic Toews Conservative Provencher, MB
I can tell you one of the delays. I don't mean to make light of this. One of the delays in getting these things forward....
I know the commissioner has been very concerned that we move forward quickly on this. I appreciate his concern, but there was the whole issue of the RCMP unionization. There were court judgments—very confusing court judgments. Those judgments have been appealed, and they're still before the courts.
Quite frankly, we couldn't wait any longer for the courts to render their decisions, so we're proceeding legislatively without addressing the issue of the unionization.
So the delay that has occurred has occurred, by and large, as a result of our inability to move ahead on that entire package. I just want to make that clear.
4:10 p.m.
NDP
Rosane Doré Lefebvre NDP Alfred-Pellan, QC
Very well. That is fine.
I was also pleased to hear you and Mr. Head say that there has been an increase in the prison population. According to the documents obtained by the Globe and Mail through access to information, the prison population's increase would be closer to 7% per year. Furthermore, a certain number of bills have been brought forward, for example Bill C-10. However, in your opening statemen, as well as the announcement you made on April 19th, you mentioned the closure of Kingston Penitentiary and the Leclerc Institution, which is located in Laval, in my riding. You also mentioned that you do not intend to build new prisons. To my mind, that is clear proof of a lack of planning on the part of the department.
It is also no surprise to learn that inmates in Canada’s federal prisons sometimes sleep in trailers, in interview rooms and in gymnasiums, while the percentage of inmates sharing cells designed for one person has nearly doubled over the course of three years. We are also witnessing an increase in the violence inside penal institutions.
Mr. Minister, how can your department ensure the safety of corrections officers and of inmates in these circumstances?
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
Vic Toews Conservative Provencher, MB
Let's take a look first at the prison numbers. I think that's about right, 7%, in terms of the increase, but that would be in about two years, I would think.
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
Vic Toews Conservative Provencher, MB
So it's 7% over two years, not one year—much, much smaller than has been predicted.
On the issue of double occupancy in cells, that is something that is done. I believe currently it's somewhere in the range of 15% double occupancy.
I make no apologies for double occupancy. It's an appropriate utilization of space. It's not appropriate for every prisoner, but where it can be done in a manner that is safe and appropriate and mindful of the costs, I certainly do not in any way discourage the use of double occupancy in cells.
In terms of the violence, I think you want to be very careful when you state that violence has increased. I'm not sure from what facilities you're talking about, because there are some facilities where in fact, because of policies that have been brought in by this commissioner, we have actually seen a decrease in violence quite significantly.
When I toured the British Columbia prisons—
4:15 p.m.
NDP
Rosane Doré Lefebvre NDP Alfred-Pellan, QC
I really do not want to contradict you, but I have substantiating statistics that show that the number of violent incidents has increased.
4:15 p.m.
Conservative
Vic Toews Conservative Provencher, MB
All I want to say is be careful about provincial statistics and federal statistics.
4:15 p.m.
Conservative
Vic Toews Conservative Provencher, MB
Sometimes in these articles, they just blur the distinction, and they don't really concern themselves with facts.
4:15 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson
Thank you very much, Ms. Lefebvre. So many questions and so little time; I know.
4:15 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson
We will now move back to the government side, to Mr. Norlock, please, for five minutes.
4:15 p.m.
Conservative
Rick Norlock Conservative Northumberland—Quinte West, ON
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair, and through you to the witnesses, thank you for appearing today.
Mr. Minister, I heard you and Commissioner Paulson talk about sexual harassment in the RCMP. You mentioned some legislative changes that you are contemplating. I wonder if you contemplate these legislative changes occurring in the next short while.
4:15 p.m.
Conservative
Vic Toews Conservative Provencher, MB
Very soon, I said. What we want to make clear is that the issue of sexual harassment and the issue of the disciplinary process are separate, but they are related. The commissioner presently has the power to deal with the issue of sexual harassment in a systemic fashion, and also in an individual fashion. The problem is that when you are dealing with it in an individual fashion, you don't have the disciplinary powers to move quickly in certain circumstances. The legislation will move, if I'm correct, in order to allow line commanders to make decisions at a very local base, and very quickly. They are related, but the legislation itself.... I don't want to get into the specifics of the legislation. You will see it very soon. It will certainly go a long way in assisting the commissioner and his commanding officers in dealing with this particular problem.
4:15 p.m.
Conservative
Rick Norlock Conservative Northumberland—Quinte West, ON
Thank you.
Switching now to Air India Flight 182, it is showing Canadians that we're not immune from the threat of terrorism. I wonder if you can make comments to this committee on the measures and compensation efforts the government has taken in response. If you would work into your response, Minister, your announcement of the Kanishka Project and the first rounds of funding for that....
4:15 p.m.
Conservative
Vic Toews Conservative Provencher, MB
The ex gratia payments are still being—that process is still in place. The cut-off for the application for the ex gratia payments is July 31, so that families who have been affected by this crime will have the ability to apply to that fund. Ex gratia payments, of course, are not compensation for the actual loss of the families. It was as a result of the treatment at the hands of the bureaucracy that those families experienced. We have to make a very clear distinction between those.
We have consulted extensively with the family in the development of this process, as we have with respect to the Kanishka Project. We wanted to see, and I think the families wanted to see, some kind of lasting legacy. What good can come out of this horrible crime? One of the things that is very clear to us is that we do not understand what causes Canadians to involve themselves in terrorist acts against their fellow citizens, or to involve themselves in terrorist initiatives overseas, to train themselves in terrorist activities, and then come home. What these grants—we announced about $1.1 million yesterday—are doing is establishing a theoretical basis and an insight into this problem so that those who have to deal with the problem on the ground—the police, judges, lawyers, communities, and families—have that theoretical basis that can then be put into a practical application.
4:20 p.m.
Conservative
Rick Norlock Conservative Northumberland—Quinte West, ON
Well, 40 seconds....
I wonder, Minister, if you could comment on what we are doing to assist disadvantaged youth from the allure of street gangs.
4:20 p.m.
Conservative
Vic Toews Conservative Provencher, MB
Essentially, I have indicated that we have $6.1 million for the renewal of the youth gang prevention fund. It's very important work. This is something our government has increased actually quite significantly since we came to power in 2006. We work together with the provinces and other NGOs in order to get the best value for our dollar in that respect.