Evidence of meeting #47 for Public Safety and National Security in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was keep.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

5:15 p.m.

Conservative

Jay Aspin Nipissing—Timiskaming, ON

Would you say that our government is the only government standing up for law-abiding Canadian firearms owners at this point?

5:15 p.m.

Conservative

Vic Toews Provencher, MB

Well, I certainly would say that.

You know, I've heard Liberals and New Democrats say they'll create a registry that isn't a criminal registry. What they don't tell you, then, is that it would be unconstitutional, because the only basis—

5:15 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Kevin Sorenson

Mr. Norlock, on a point of order.

5:15 p.m.

Conservative

Rick Norlock Northumberland—Quinte West, ON

On a point of order, Mr. Chair, there seems to be a disagreement on both sides as to the veracity of whether or not the leader of Her Majesty's official opposition....

5:15 p.m.

NDP

Randall Garrison Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca, BC

That's not a point of order.

5:15 p.m.

Conservative

Rick Norlock Northumberland—Quinte West, ON

I can provide, should the chair wish, a direct quote.

5:15 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Kevin Sorenson

No, I think we'll just let it ride for now. We don't want to dwell on that while we have the minister.

5:15 p.m.

Conservative

Rick Norlock Northumberland—Quinte West, ON

Okay.

5:15 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Kevin Sorenson

If you very quickly want to finish your comment, you're about ten seconds over now.

5:15 p.m.

Conservative

Vic Toews Provencher, MB

I'll leave it at that.

5:15 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Kevin Sorenson

All right.

We'll move back to Mr. Garrison, please.

June 19th, 2012 / 5:15 p.m.

NDP

Randall Garrison Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca, BC

Thank you much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to the minister for being here.

Rather than talking about the past or the future, I'd like to talk about what's before us today—namely, the regulations dealing with records of sale.

I want to go back through this with you. To me, the records of sale pre-existed the registry. They weren't used to create the registry. They're kept routinely by gun shops. They're not in any electronic form so that they could be searched. They're accessible only by warrant.

If this regulation goes ahead, aren't you really creating a big hole in the only potential source of information we have about non-restricted weapons that might be used in gun crimes?

5:15 p.m.

Conservative

Vic Toews Provencher, MB

No. I don't agree with that at all. If shop owners are keeping records, those records are accessible by warrant and not by a bureaucrat exercising that type of unilateral power to not only go into businesses; they could also, under the Firearms Act, go into homes, which is quite disturbing.

5:15 p.m.

NDP

Randall Garrison Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca, BC

I'm talking about the records of sale. I'm not talking about the pre-existing registry.

To me, I see a scenario where there's a crime committed with a non-registered weapon. The manufacturer might say, well, that gun was shipped to this gun shop, and the gun shop owner says, “I love the minister. He told me I didn't have to keep these records, so we don't have them”.

What do you say to the police and prosecutors who are trying to prosecute that crime? What do you say to the victims of that crime? Is it, “Oh, we decided that wasn't essential information and people didn't have to keep it”?

5:15 p.m.

Conservative

Vic Toews Provencher, MB

I'm not going to speculate on what happens in an investigation, but I can assure you that's not how these crimes are investigated.