Evidence of meeting #5 for Public Safety and National Security in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was treatment.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Catherine Latimer  Executive Director, John Howard Society of Canada
Kim Pate  Executive Director, Canadian Association of Elizabeth Fry Societies
Eleanor Clitheroe  Chief Executive Officer, Prison Fellowship Canada
Rob Sampson  As an Individual
Paul Abbass  Director, Prison Fellowship Canada

11 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson

Good morning, everyone. Welcome here.

This is meeting number 5 of the Standing Committee on Public Safety and National Security, on Tuesday, October 4, 2011.

Today we are going to continue our study on drugs and alcohol in prisons. More specifically, we are studying how drugs and alcohol enter prisons, the impact it has on offenders and on the rehabilitation of offenders, and also the impact it has on the safety of correctional officers and on crime within our institutions.

I remind each one that the topic of prisons is a vast topic. We're specifically speaking on drugs and alcohol in our prisons.

In our first hour this morning we have, from the John Howard Society of Canada, Ms. Catherine Latimer, executive director. Welcome. From the Canadian Association of Elizabeth Fry Societies, we have appearing before us Ms. Kim Pate, executive director. We welcome both of you.

On behalf of of the committee, it's good to have you here, and we look forward to the information you can provide to us. You have approximately 10 minutes for opening statements, and then we'll move into the first and second rounds of questions.

Ms. Latimer, would you like to begin, please?

11 a.m.

Catherine Latimer Executive Director, John Howard Society of Canada

Thank you very much for the kind invitation to the John Howard Society to appear on this issue, which is very important to us.

The John Howard Society is a community-based charity whose mission is to support effective, just, and humane responses to the causes and the consequences of crime. We have about 65 front-line offices across the country that provide support in terms of reintegration support and also crime prevention activities. Many of those we serve are battling alcohol and drug addiction, so this is an important issue for us.

I'll focus my remarks on, as you suggest, drugs and alcohol in the prisons. We have a rights-based approach to dealing with all policy matters in prisons. That is, essentially those who are sentenced to custody retain rights, except for those implicated in the carrying out of the actual sentence. They retain rights to health care and a variety of other services that would otherwise be available to citizens. If there is any further hardship that's imposed on an inmate in the course of the carrying out of the sentence, then those are protected by section 7 charter rights, and you have to proceed in accordance with fundamental principles of justice.

We agree that the situation of drugs in prison is serious. It creates violence, it spreads disease, and it can lead to further crime. We agree that efforts should be made to reduce the amount of illicit drugs in the institutions.

I would also point out that we fully endorse the paper that was done by Michael Jackson and Graham Stewart, called A Flawed Compass, which comments on the government's road map for corrections policy. Chapter 6 of that report deals specifically with drug issues. If you haven't had a chance to read it, I would commend it to the committee.

We believe you need to have a balanced approach in any sets of policies dealing with drug issues. Interdiction, which is on the supply reduction side, is of course important, but we would urge a broader approach to the issue of drugs in prison. We believe that to be humane and effective you really need to include treatment and harm reduction efforts in the strategy for dealing with drugs and alcohol in prisons. Such a strategy should be based on what works, the evidence of what works, and an assessment of some of the things that have already been tried. For example, I think we should look at the effectiveness of the existing interdiction measures. I think it's also important to look at the costs of the interdiction measures in terms of family visits and the importance of those family visits in terms of supporting reintegration in the long run.

I think it's important to look at the benefits of treatment for those with addictions and at the need for harm reduction measures within the prisons to ensure that the needs of inmates suffering from the disease of addiction are addressed and to curb the spread of disease.

Interdicting drugs into the prison is a very important aspiration, but it will be highly unlikely that you will be 100% successful in stopping the flow of drugs into prisons. What you will be doing is reducing the supply without necessarily reducing the demand, if you're only concentrating on the interdiction side, which will lead to perhaps greater inmate unrest and more violence in the prisons. So I think we need to be careful about how this is being approached.

Moreover, I think when you're looking at the interdiction side, it is very important to look at the inaccuracy of ion scanners and sniffer dogs. This needs to be recognized. The literature is pretty clear that ion scanners produce a significant number of false positives. Similarly, some studies show that 75% of the people identified by the dogs were later found not to be carrying drugs, so that also indicates a high number of false positives, and there is a huge variation in the ability of dogs to be successful at sniffing drugs. It's an important technique, but I think the accuracy of it really needs to be checked.

The other thing I would raise with you, and it has been raised to me by many family members of inmates, is that there is a huge price to be paid for visitors into the prisons because of the interdiction measures.

A small percentage of the inmates are actually involved in drugs, but the interdiction measures and the screening measures apply to all inmates and to all of their visitors. CSC did a study of seizures during 2001 and 2006 and found that only about 20% of the drug seizures took place in the visits area, so there are other ways in which the drugs are going through.

The visitors suffer a terrible stigma from false positives and the notion that they may be a possible drug user or drug carrier. This is very intimidating for them. Many of them have signalled that it would affect their willingness to continue to visit inmates in prisons.

Some visitors also are intimidated by the dogs or embarrassed by the intrusive nature of the dogs' behaviour. Inmates have filed a grievance about perceived inappropriate handling of dogs vis-à-vis female visitors. I think that needs to be looked at.

I would re-emphasize that maintaining contact with family and community members is extremely important for successful reintegration and for community safety in the long run. I think we need to take very seriously the issue of whether the interdiction measures are offset to some extent by the negative consequences for the visitors.

On treatment, the Supreme Court of Canada decision last week in Canada v. PHS Community Services Society, which dealt with Insite, recognized addiction as a disease that needed to be treated and where harm reduction needed to be applied. It found the minister's exercise of discretion in limiting access to medical assistance and harm reduction to have violated section 7 rights with respect to “fundamental principles of justice”.

Given that the illness of addiction denies the addict the capacity to exercise free choice about drug use, treatment really is necessary to bring the offender to the position where they can exercise free choice about drug use. Therefore, treatment for addiction cannot reasonably be withheld on the basis that it is the addicted offender's choice to use the drugs.

We are enormously pleased with the government's national anti-drug strategy in that it takes a balanced approach to dealing with addiction and drug issues. It includes enforcement as well as treatment and prevention, all of which I think are very important in dealing effectively with drug issues.

In the last version, resources were allocated for the treatment of youth in custody, and we urge that the renewal of the national anti-drug strategy for 2012 include resources to test effective treatment for both youth and adult offenders, treatment that begins in custody and continues into the community as part of a reintegration strategy. Many John Howard Society affiliates might be able to assist with that type of programming.

I would also like to talk a bit about harm reduction. There is little doubt that addiction leads to significant harms within the custodial setting. Those suffering from the illness have no legitimate access to the substances to which they are addicted, nor do they have any safe means to administer drugs. The resulting injury to the addict and the spread of infectious diseases like hepatitis C and the presence of other drug- and alcohol-related illnesses may well constitute a public health issue and should be addressed.

With respect to crowding, there has been a recent increase in the number of inmates within the penitentiaries. Since March 2010, it's estimated that between 800 and 1,000 inmates have been added to the institutions of the Correctional Service of Canada, which is basically the equivalent of two full institutions.

The increasing crowding in the prison systems across the country will exacerbate harms resulting from drug and alcohol addiction, both directly and indirectly. In a direct sense, the increase in double-bunking and the dense population will facilitate the spread of disease. The American Public Health Association calls for 60 square feet per occupant in a single cell, which is single occupancy, essentially, of CSC space, and 75 square feet per occupant in a prison dormitory.

Indirectly, crowded prisons lead to more violence, more pressure on guards, more lockdowns and tighter security, and less access to rehabilitative programs, health care, etc. In such circumstances, the demand for drug and alcohol actually increases in the prisons.

We have a number of recommendations for the committee's consideration.

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson

Be very quick. We're over our time limit here already.

11:10 a.m.

Executive Director, John Howard Society of Canada

Catherine Latimer

Okay. I will get through these very quickly.

One, we think interdiction should be part of a broader strategy for dealing with drugs and alcohol in the prisons.

Two, the prevalence and policies associated with false positives in current interdiction techniques should be assessed.

Three, the impact of drug interdiction efforts on family visits should be recognized, and consultations with inmates and families could perhaps be held to see if there is some way to address the drug policy objectives without jeopardizing the family visits.

Four, treatment should be available for those under the care of CSC.

Five, the renewal of the national anti-drug strategy should include resources to test addiction treatment for offenders as part of the continuum of care that bridges the transition back into the community.

Six, harm reduction should be available.

Seven, an assessment should be done to determine if the spread of alcohol and drug-related disease is more prevalent in prison, and, if so, steps should be taken to address that.

Eight, given the increased density of the prison population, the Canadian public health authorities should be invited to comment on minimum space requirements and other health issues.

And nine, finally, in light of the recent Supreme Court of Canada decision, a review of the use of the discretion, by the minister and officials, that limits access of offenders suffering from the illness of addiction to treatment and harm reduction should be undertaken to ensure charter compliance.

Thank you very much.

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson

Thank you very much, Ms. Latimer.

We'll now proceed to Ms. Pate, please.

11:10 a.m.

Kim Pate Executive Director, Canadian Association of Elizabeth Fry Societies

Thank you very much.

Thank you very much for inviting the Canadian Association of Elizabeth Fry Societies.

I know the committee is working very quickly on things. I apologize that I did not have an opportunity to develop a written submission, as I was actually on the road, in an airport, when I received the call asking if we could attend. I'm very happy to be here, and very happy I could get back in time, but I send regrets from my board members who were not able to attend as a result.

We have 26 members across the country. They range from organizations that are the only community service, the only women's service, the only victims service in some areas, to those that are doing prison resettlement work. We work with marginalized, victimized, criminalized, and institutionalized women and girls, both those who are within the criminal justice system and those who are not.

In terms of drug use, I won't repeat things that my colleague Catherine has said. She very ably covered many of the issues. Rather than repeat those, I want to talk a bit about the differences we see, particularly for women, in this issue of drug use and alcohol interdiction methods within the prisons and the impact it has to pull the two together and not differentiate policies from time to time.

As many of you know, I've worked for almost 30 years now in this area, first with young people, then with men, and for the last 20 years focusing on women in particular. There's one thing that's vitally important to know about many of the women in prison. The estimates last done by Corrections during the task force, which was more than 20 years ago, showed that at that time, almost 91% of indigenous women and about 80% of all women had histories of physical and/or sexual abuse.

You may wonder what that has to do with drug use.

Because of limits in health care, particularly in mental health care, an area where women have traditionally been overrepresented, in large part, because of those kinds of histories when they're marginalized, often women have first been medicated even before they are in an institution. As we have seen cuts to health care across the country, we've seen women start to self-medicate when they are no longer eligible for drug plans, whether it's through their employment or through social assistance or whatever. We also see in the prison system that one of the highest rates of medication use is with women prisoners. It's also with indigenous women and with women--and men, for that matter--who have mental health issues.

So we start with the point of discussing two areas of drug use. One is legal drug use in terms of the use of drugs that essentially act as medical constraints or restraints and that interfere with, or mask sometimes, the medication or the use of other drugs. It also often gets confused with other drugs. We have a number of women who've had to go through court cases that they can ill afford.

Those of you who are aware of this area will know how difficult it is if you're charged with an offence in custody--for instance, of drug use. If you have either a false positive or a positive that isn't determined yet to be false on a urinalysis test, it's very difficult often to challenge that when you don't have access to any kind of legal support or have access to in fact be able to put forth the research that would show that this particular legal medication might be mistaken for an illegal medication, or that the interaction of certain medications may create a false positive. So we end up with situations where we have medication being confused with illegal drug use.

We also see situations, as we've seen some challenges to that medication within the prisons, of women starting to self-medicate both in the community and in the prison system.

We also know what the research done by the Correctional Service of Canada more than 20 years ago, by Dr. Diane Riley, indicated, that the war on drugs mentality that was being brought into the prison system at that time, and that was being brought in generally, imported from the United States, was actually going to drive up serious drug use within the institutions. The reason is that we know that cannabis and other so-called softer drugs--drugs that tend to not create the same sort of potentially volatile situations or aggressive tendencies as other drugs--take much longer to pass through the system.

So Dr. Riley actually predicted that we would start to see increased drug use, and we've seen that in the men's and women's prisons. We haven't necessarily seen an increase in volatility within the women's prisons, but we certainly have heard of and seen increased use of more serious drugs.

Similarly, the ban on cigarettes has actually meant that there's a greater trade now in tobacco and greater interdiction efforts used to stop tobacco entry than there ever was for drug use.

This is not a moral commentary on whether it's healthy or not healthy to be using drugs. But I also want to point out that what that has led to in the women's prisons is a massive increase in strip searching.

Going back to the history of sexual abuse and physical abuse that many women have, many women find those kinds of invasive searches not just humiliating but also additionally punitive in terms of their histories of post-traumatic stress, their histories of abuse. One of the challenges we have had when we've asked Corrections for the data on this is that we've been advised several times over that there are so many strip searches of women—think of it—that they don't keep track of them.

We were trying to determine how much contraband was found. It has been acknowledged privately, although I'm not able to obtain written confirmation, that very little of that contraband is drugs. Sometimes it will be jewellery, sometimes it will be money, sometimes it will be cigarettes, but virtually no drugs and never weapons. So the very issues for which, lawfully, that kind of sexual assault by the state is permitted do not bear out in terms of theory.

I cannot provide you with numbers as to how many strip searches actually happen. The fact that we can't have those numbers means that it is probably far greater than it ever should be, and certainly not seen as necessary, even by those who do the strip searches.

I bring to your attention a policy intervention that was done by all the deputy wardens of the women's prisons, the federal penitentiaries for women, in 2005. The deputy wardens at that time—they are no longer called that now—were responsible for security in the institutions. The deputy wardens determined that strip searching was being used so much that it was actually interfering with things like private family visits. The intervention that is seen as most likely to create successful reintegration later is contact with family and communities of support. In fact, women were refusing to have their children brought in for fear they might be strip searched, even though the official policy is no strip searching. If you're asked to take clothes off and reveal the diaper, that is a strip search, and those sorts of things do happen in the prisons from time to time. The risk of strip search, the threat of strip search, meant that many women asked their families not to attend and some family members refused to attend.

Those who did would go through things like bleaching their children's hands. With social assistance at rates on which they could ill afford their groceries, they would put their clothes through dry cleaning to try to ensure that they wouldn't have false positives.

So the interference with reintegration, the interference with visits, the lack of security need for those kinds of strip searches meant that all the deputy wardens for the women's prisons at that time put forth a suggestion to national headquarters of the Correctional Service of Canada that they cease all routine strip searches and do strip searching only for cause, when they actually have suspicion that someone might be carrying drugs or a weapon, or might be doing something. It makes sense that if you have concern, you have the authority to do it. That was rejected by national headquarters, even though there was no evidence that it would increase any risk to staff or to public safety by changing that policy.

Where are we now? We have a high number of false positives. We have increasing numbers of women in prison. We're now having private family visiting units also being used as living units. We have overcrowding that is limiting the access of women to their communities. And it's all in the name of trying to prevent drug interdiction, when Corrections themselves will acknowledge, probably not here, never publicly, and certainly all prisoners know, that the easiest way to get access to drugs is through staff. I wish that were otherwise; I wish I could tell you something else. But the reality is that when you have the kinds of severe security measures that are being taken now, so that even people like me are being told that I'm ringing off....

Of course, I know the policy, so I'll ask for the risk-threat assessment; I'll ask for all of the appropriate measures. Everybody will agree that they have no concern that after 30 years of coming in, I would actually ever introduce drugs to the institution. Yet I've rung off falsely positive, so much so that at one point we went through a whole little charade of what kind of medication I might have touched in the previous two weeks. In the end, it was assessed that a Dimetapp I had given my child two weeks earlier may have caused it. Now really, I suggest to you, that is stretching it. I know that the staff were trying to be very helpful, and I appreciated their help in ensuring that I could have access to the institution on that visit. But don't think anybody was fooled into thinking that it was in fact what caused me to ring off. It may have been the gas pump I touched earlier. It may have been the money I touched. It may have been anything, or it may have been nothing. We don't know.

I would encourage us to seriously look at this issue, and think, as we've heard and as the Insite decision has encouraged, about looking at harm reduction measures, to look at how in fact current drug policies have driven up the risk of drug use within the prisons, and to try to reverse some of those.

11:20 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson

Thank you very much.

We will move into the first round of questioning.

Ms. Hoeppner, go ahead for seven minutes, please.

11:20 a.m.

Conservative

Candice Bergen Conservative Portage—Lisgar, MB

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I want to thank both of you for being here and for your presentation.

Mrs. Pate, I want to give you the chance to correct the record if you possibly misspoke when you said a few moments ago that the strip searches are sexual assaults. Are you saying that our correctional officers are sexually assaulting these women? I don't think that's what you meant to say, so I just want to give you a chance to correct that.

11:20 a.m.

Executive Director, Canadian Association of Elizabeth Fry Societies

Kim Pate

Strip searching has been determined to be sexual assault by the state in a number of areas, including what Louise Arbour found when she examined the situation at the prison for women in Kingston.

Sexual assault by the state is permitted in circumstances where in fact there are grounds to be able to strip search. The removal of clothing against one's will and the removal of clothing before peace officers is a strip search.

11:20 a.m.

Conservative

Candice Bergen Conservative Portage—Lisgar, MB

Do you stand by that statement?

11:25 a.m.

Executive Director, Canadian Association of Elizabeth Fry Societies

Kim Pate

Yes, I do.

11:25 a.m.

Conservative

Candice Bergen Conservative Portage—Lisgar, MB

All right.

I want to go on to a different area.

When Commissioner Head was here, we talked a little about when prisoners first enter a prison. Our government has implemented that there be, within 90 days, an assessment of those inmates to see if they have a history of drug use. I think the statistic is that about 80% of inmates have had drug or alcohol addictions that have been associated with their crimes. Obviously, that statistic is very high. We had previously implemented that assessment within the first 90 days. Is that something you think is a positive step in helping reduce drug and alcohol addictions in prison?

11:25 a.m.

Executive Director, Canadian Association of Elizabeth Fry Societies

Kim Pate

There is often a delay, and we don't always see everybody assessed within the first 90 days. That's an issue. Increasing numbers will further limit that.

As we saw with Ashley Smith--and again, one of the challenges is sometimes getting the documentation--we are told on one hand it is policy, and then we are told on the other hand by prisoners that in fact they are not routinely having those assessments. We have 18 advocates who go into all of the federal penitentiaries. Even when prisoners are assessed as having drug and alcohol issues, they may not get access to programs right away, or in fact for some time.

So yes, the assessment is a good thing, and I think having access to programs is a good thing. If you are being told it is happening, then I would encourage you to question that.

11:25 a.m.

Conservative

Candice Bergen Conservative Portage—Lisgar, MB

All right. Thank you for that.

Moving on, if they are assessed as having an addiction and they are offered participation in a program, we heard that some inmates do not want to participate. Obviously, that's their choice. One of the guards—in fact, the head of the union—was here testifying before us last week, and he said it was very difficult, because the inmates who refuse treatments still get basically all of the same benefits, such as a television in their room. I'm not sure if you would consider that a right, but do you think there might be some benefit to having some consequences, or maybe fewer perks for inmates who refuse treatment?

11:25 a.m.

Executive Director, John Howard Society of Canada

Catherine Latimer

Because it is a right to accept or refuse treatment, you should not be penalized for exercising your rights one way or another.

11:25 a.m.

Executive Director, Canadian Association of Elizabeth Fry Societies

Kim Pate

Both of us are lawyers, and I teach at the law school as well, and I would say that the first thing to remember is that the punishment is the term of imprisonment. Television was introduced as a calming method in the prison as well as to keep people occupied because there is so little else to do, especially as we see more overcrowding.

In fact, it is false to say there are no repercussions. If you need to know the number of people who are delayed in getting out, who are kept in until warrant expiry, because they don't participate in programs, I would suggest you request that list from Corrections Canada. In fact, if you do not participate in programs and address the issues that are identified in that initial assessment as being required for your correctional treatment plan, you will not be recommended for parole. Even if you do them, it is not guaranteed that you will be recommended for parole if you are still seen to pose a risk.

It's actually very misleading to say that people get perks. Basically, basic human rights and basic attempts at calming and resocialization are part of the responsibilities of Corrections Canada. If in fact we are talking about going to regimes that are seen as brutalizing, because they violate all human rights, then we are talking about a whole other matter. Then I would suggest that you would see even more drug use in the prisons.

11:25 a.m.

Conservative

Candice Bergen Conservative Portage—Lisgar, MB

So what you're saying—and I appreciate that—is that if someone isn't part of a drug program, they wouldn't necessarily get paroled early. But wouldn't you agree that's probably a good idea? If someone hasn't gotten treatment, they're still addicted—

11:25 a.m.

Executive Director, Canadian Association of Elizabeth Fry Societies

Kim Pate

I would like to see—

11:25 a.m.

Conservative

Candice Bergen Conservative Portage—Lisgar, MB

—they may get back into crime solely because of their addiction.

Would you not agree that probably is a wise decision, even just in terms of protecting general society?

11:25 a.m.

Executive Director, Canadian Association of Elizabeth Fry Societies

Kim Pate

I apologize for interrupting you; I get quite exercised about this.

I can tell you that one of the routine issues we're dealing with is prisoners requesting programs and not getting access to them. I would ask you to ensure that you have accurate information of how many prisoners are actually being offered treatment and refusing it. It's not a long list. There may be some. Certainly my experience is that those are often individuals who also have other issues—mental health issues—and they generally aren't coming in.

I've yet to meet someone who if offered a treatment program would say they don't want to do that treatment program, unless it's not actually a treatment program. Occasionally we'll have behaviour modification programs that haven't been seen as being as effective in dealing with drug treatment, and people may say, “I'd rather be able to go to this one”. In a few cases we've managed to argue to have someone go to a proper drug treatment program, where they were being offered something else that really wasn't going to meet their needs.

11:25 a.m.

Conservative

Candice Bergen Conservative Portage—Lisgar, MB

Very quickly, both of you talked at length, and I think you made some valid points, about families who are not smuggling in drugs and how they feel uncomfortable. I think all of us feel that way any time we go to an airport. But we realize, for the protection of all of us, that there are certain things we have to go through.

I appreciate what you have to say regarding families who are not smuggling in drugs, but what about those who are? Should there be some sort of repercussion for individuals who are bringing drugs into prisons? Right now there's no punishment, from what we understand.

11:30 a.m.

Executive Director, Canadian Association of Elizabeth Fry Societies

Kim Pate

I'm sorry, I'm not sure where you got that information. The police are called immediately. People are subject to charges. They're charged with trafficking. Every case I'm aware of where someone is known to have brought drugs in, there have been charges.

Again, if you have evidence that there are other situations, I would love to hear about them. We hear that kind of rhetorical commentary, but we don't see it actually happening. In fact, we've had situations where things have been leaked to the media that aren't even accurate.

11:30 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson

Thank you.

We'll now move to the opposition.

Mr. Sandhu, please.

11:30 a.m.

NDP

Jasbir Sandhu NDP Surrey North, BC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to thank the John Howard Society and Elizabeth Fry Society for being here today. Thank you.

I think any successful drug strategy program involves certain elements; it requires prevention, treatment, and enforcement. The ultimate goal, obviously, is to have the prisoners go into society and function at a level where they're not able to reoffend. Out of the three areas, which one would you say is the most successful way of integrating prisoners into society so they do not reoffend, so they become productive members of society?

11:30 a.m.

Executive Director, John Howard Society of Canada

Catherine Latimer

At this point probably prevention is gone because they're probably already involved with drugs. From our perspective, it would be treatment, bringing them to a place where they have a certain physiological capacity to overcome an addiction and then make free choices about what they want to do.

But it's not just the absence of an addiction; you also need to buttress that with other social supports if you're going to have a successful reintegration plan. It's pretty critical as part of relapse programming to try to keep people out of circumstances where they could fall back into their addiction behaviour with alcohol or drugs.