Evidence of meeting #9 for Public Safety and National Security in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was prison.
A recording is available from Parliament.
12:45 p.m.
NDP
Jasbir Sandhu NDP Surrey North, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
In today's meeting and others we've often heard the terms “multi-pronged approach” and “ balanced approach”. This seems to be a trend. A lot of the experts or witnesses are saying that we need to take a balanced approach. We've seen your urinalysis tests over the last little go down. Would it be fair to say that interdiction and rehabilitation treatment play a part in getting that number lower?
12:45 p.m.
Warden, Edmonton Institution for Women, Correctional Service of Canada
Absolutely. Efforts on all fronts are necessary to help the inmates manage their addictions.
12:45 p.m.
Security Intelligence Officer, Drumheller Institution, Correctional Service of Canada
I agree 100%. We have to look at all of the different approaches, from prevention to interdiction to treatment.
12:45 p.m.
NDP
Jasbir Sandhu NDP Surrey North, BC
We've also heard the term “drug-free prisons” during these meetings. How realistic is that? Can we really get drug-free prisons?
12:45 p.m.
Warden, Edmonton Institution for Women, Correctional Service of Canada
I guess we have to be realistic, in that folks with substance abuse issues are at times going to be seeking drugs. That happens in treatment centres, in schools, and everywhere. The most important thing is to strive to create an environment that is safe and that facilitates recovery, rehabilitation, and accountability. Part of what we need to do is to make our institutions as drug free as we possibly can, just as a piece of the puzzle.
12:45 p.m.
Warden, Edmonton Institution for Women, Correctional Service of Canada
I don't know if it's possible, but the key is to strive for it. For folks working on their recovery, the presence of drugs can be a triggering event that can sabotage their recovery. We need to do that for them. We need to do it because of all of the violence associated with the drug trade inside the facility, like the violence surrounding debts, and the risk to our staff—and to the public if we release people who are still actively addicted. So it's really key that we strive.
12:45 p.m.
NDP
Jasbir Sandhu NDP Surrey North, BC
The urinalysis tests are much lower for women in prisons. What can we learn from the experience in women's prisons? You talked about being less organized. What can we learn from you that we can apply to the men's prisons to bring their rates down?
12:45 p.m.
Warden, Edmonton Institution for Women, Correctional Service of Canada
Some of it is not within my control; I guess I got lucky. I'm the warden of a women's facility, and women are somewhat different when they come into custody. They are highly motivated, less connected, with fewer resources, and they want to get out of prison to take care of the kids they have. So with some of these things, we're just lucky to have to them.
For example, we don't struggle with gang issues to any great degree, compared with what we've seen in the men's facilities. We need to make sure that those gangs do not get a foothold in our facilities, because the absence of active gang activity allows us to create an environment that is much more conducive to rehabilitation.
12:45 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson
Mr. Leef, I'm just going to warn you right now that I'm going to take the prerogative here pretty quickly as the chair and ask a question of Mr. Thompson as well.
So go ahead, Mr. Leef.
October 27th, 2011 / 12:45 p.m.
Conservative
Ryan Leef Conservative Yukon, YT
Okay. Thank you, Mr. Chair, and I'll make this quick.
This question is for Mr. Thompson. During some of the witness testimony, we heard about a safe needle exchange program in correctional facilities, and that this might be a good idea. I believe there was a comparison made or a description stated that not allowing a safe needle exchange would be akin to discrimination. Could I get you to comment, from your experience, on needle use in the correctional centre and how it relates to gangs.
Also, could you talk specifically about your experience with tattooing. I know we're talking about gangs, but you spoke in your testimony about gangs controlling drugs. Could you share with the committee how tattooing plays a role in that environment?
And could you tell us what a safe needle exchange might mean in terms of health concerns and the proliferation of gang activity through tattooing.
12:50 p.m.
Security Intelligence Officer, Drumheller Institution, Correctional Service of Canada
Obviously, the sharing of needles in an institutional environment is a health and safety concern from an inmate's perspective.
Jail-mate tattoos are commonplace within our institution, especially within our gangs. Our gangs, especially our aboriginal gangs, like to get their tattoos, their patches. They're proud to an Alberta Warrior or Red Alert, and they want to publicly display that.
In regard to the needle exchange, are you referring to that in terms of tattooing or intravenous drug use?
12:50 p.m.
Conservative
Ryan Leef Conservative Yukon, YT
I would say in terms of both, because there is a direct link, I would suppose, between the ability to tattoo and brand yourself and to show that off, and using that as just a physical symbol of your involvement in the drug trade and organization within the correctional environment. Would that be correct?
12:50 p.m.
Security Intelligence Officer, Drumheller Institution, Correctional Service of Canada
Yes, that would be correct.
In regard to the needle exchange program, I am an advocate of not having any drugs in our institution and thus not have needles either. I have a hard time supporting the actual needle exchange program, but on the other side, I don't want to see anyone get an infectious disease when it's not necessary.
12:50 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson
Actually, you still have more time if you want to continue on that. We do go to the government side for two questions in a row, so I meant that I would perhaps take a little time in the next round.
12:50 p.m.
Conservative
Ryan Leef Conservative Yukon, YT
Okay, we were all in a generous mood, handing time out, weren't we?
12:50 p.m.
Conservative
12:50 p.m.
Conservative
12:50 p.m.
Conservative
Candice Bergen Conservative Portage—Lisgar, MB
Thank you, Mr. Leef.
I have a question for the warden of the women's prison. I'm sorry, but I don't have your name in front of me.
12:50 p.m.
A voice
It's Ms. Markowski.
12:50 p.m.
Conservative
Candice Bergen Conservative Portage—Lisgar, MB
Ms. Markowski, I'm sorry. I was just putting all my papers away, as I didn't realize I'd have a chance to ask a question.
First of all, you said there are obviously women who trying to bring drugs in, and you talked about the fact that many times it's very difficult because they have different ways of hiding these drugs, which are a lot more difficult to detect. Is that correct?