Evidence of meeting #22 for Public Safety and National Security in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was million.
A recording is available from Parliament.
3:55 p.m.
NDP
Randall Garrison NDP Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca, BC
Last year the Minister spent $2.6 million with the main estimates and supplementary. Next year it projects to spend $2.3 million. This is not about how many were projected in the future. This is about your actual expenditures this year versus what you're projecting next year, and it is lower. So I am concerned there will not be resources for this strategy.
3:55 p.m.
Conservative
Steven Blaney Conservative Lévis—Bellechasse, QC
No. We are investing annually for mental health services in our facilities, close to $95 million. This amount remains, and will be adjusted, as I indicated, with the agreement we have signed. The reason why there is a reduction in the overall costs is because the expectation of increases—I would almost say apocalyptic increases that were suggested—maybe by some even of your calling, if I may, have not materialized.
Currently, there are 15,276 inmates.
I'm even pleased to announce to you that thanks to the good work of Correctional Service Canada, the cost per inmate has been reduced. So we are able to provide a good quality service, to provide rehabilitation, and to reduce the costs. This is best for the inmates and best for the taxpayer.
3:55 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Daryl Kramp
Thank you very much, Minister.
Now, Mr. Norlock, please, you have seven minutes.
3:55 p.m.
Conservative
Rick Norlock Conservative Northumberland—Quinte West, ON
Thank you very much, Minister.
I have particular interest, of course, because one of Canada's largest prisons is within my riding, and I have a particular interest in some of the investments we've made in our prison system. But in particular, I want to talk about something that you alluded to in your response to my friend across the way. The NDP member Peter Julian said that—and this was in the last Parliament, of which I was a member—we would have to spend $19 billion to build new prisons, even though we actually closed two.
I wonder if you could give us your thoughts with regard to what the estimates are—and we could even leave that overexaggeration—in the prison population, and what were the actualities.
Could you talk further about what our intention is to do with those moneys that have been saved, and you, of course, mentioned one of them, and that's the announcement you made today.
May 1st, 2014 / 3:55 p.m.
Conservative
Steven Blaney Conservative Lévis—Bellechasse, QC
Thank you.
The purpose of correctional services is of course to ensure that criminals are behind bars in order to protect society, and also to facilitate their return to civil life later so that they may once again contribute to society; that is clear.
As you know, Mr. Norlock, our government thinks it is important to put an end to practices that caused people to lose trust in our justice system. They were, in fact, under the impression that there was a lack of balance. More generally speaking, I was proud over the past few weeks to accompany the Prime Minister, Stephen Harper, and the Minister of Justice to put victims back at the heart of our legal system.
We adopted over 30 bills or measures in that regard. For instance, we put an end to the famous two for one credit which meant that the offender had his prison sentence reduced. These measures have meant that there has been a certain increase in the number of persons in our establishments, but it is barely greater than the increase in the general population.
We see the results clearly. Statistics show that in most cases, the crime rate is going down. Of course, there are issues we must address. Unfortunately, crimes of a sexual nature are on the rise. We also see that some segments of the population are more affected by crime and we must continue to devote efforts to that. That is why we have put in place the National Crime Prevention Strategy.
Last week I was in Vancouver to announce that we are, for instance, going to assist young aboriginals who are more vulnerable. We think that this project is going to give results.
To get back to your question, essentially, the projected increase in the inmate population did not materialize. Because of that, today we are returning $119.5 million to the public purse. However, this will in no way affect the care and services provided to inmates.
4 p.m.
Conservative
Rick Norlock Conservative Northumberland—Quinte West, ON
Thank you very much, Minister.
If I could, let's go to Public Safety and the overall budget. You mentioned a significant increase in the budgetary necessities, particularly because of natural disasters, such as the flood in Alberta.
I wonder if you could elaborate a little bit more and share your thoughts with us on the importance of DFAA, and how your department stands ready to assist provinces. If you could talk about federal responsibility and how the federal government gets involved in these kinds of natural disasters, I don't think Canadians know what the system really is in our country.
4 p.m.
Conservative
Steven Blaney Conservative Lévis—Bellechasse, QC
Thank you, Mr. Norlock.
You're right to mention that sometimes Canadians don't really know that when it comes to natural disasters, the Government of Canada has entered into an agreement that goes back to 1970, where, after some thresholds are reached and some initial costs are assumed by the province where the disaster occurred, the support of the government can go up to 90%. This is what takes place in major disasters, such as the flood that has occurred in Alberta.
One thing we have to take into account—and I would say this is certainly a challenge not only for our government, but for our country—is that the number of events over the last decade has increased, and the magnitude of those events has also increased, and therefore the cost of those events has increased.
If I take, for example, the first 25 years of this program, we would have an average of $10 million per year in disasters. This year alone we are having more than $600 million. That's why in Budget 2014 we have initiated a mitigation plan. This has been the outcome of an effort, a concerted effort, with the provinces and the federal government to make sure that we would come up with a mitigation measure. Our government has announced $200 million. This fund will be matched by the provinces as well, so it's a fund of $400 million. I'm eager to meet with my counterparts this June to see how we can unfold these investments to reduce and help mitigate the cost of those natural disasters.
4 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Daryl Kramp
Fine, thank you very much.
Mr. Easter, you have seven minutes, please.
4 p.m.
Liberal
Wayne Easter Liberal Malpeque, PE
Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you, minister and agency heads, for coming.
We can probably get into this more in depth later with the various agencies under your authority, but my question to you, Minister, is this. Did you or any of your agencies have any involvement in the 1.19 million requests for personal data on Canadians from the telecom companies and were those issued with or without warrant?
4:05 p.m.
Liberal
Wayne Easter Liberal Malpeque, PE
Okay, we'll get into it further with agencies later, because if we can't get it today, I would like a written response on how many requests were made by each agency, those with warrants and those without.
I'll go to my second question.
You seem remarkably proud that you're turning back moneys from Correctional Service Canada. However, I think an even greater concern is what will the decision you're making today to pay down the deficit by probably making harsher conditions in prisons and probably jeopardizing the rehabilitation of inmates who are going to come out into society at some point in their life.... I would refer you to the correctional investigator's annual report, which he tabled less than a year ago, and this is what he says in the report and I quote:
Today, as my report makes clear, many of the same problems that were endemic to prison life in the early 1970s,—
Some of us remember that, where there were riots, etc. Going on with the quote:
—crowding; too much time spent in cells; the curtailment of movement, association and contact with the outside world; lack of program capacity; the paucity of meaningful prison work or vocational skills training; and the polarization between inmates and custodial staff—continue to be features of contemporary correctional practice.
That's what the correctional investigator is putting on your plate, Minister, and you're paying down the deficit with these problems in a prison system. I find it hard to believe.
4:05 p.m.
Conservative
Steven Blaney Conservative Lévis—Bellechasse, QC
I'm sorry, Mr. Easter.
I'd like to respond to your second question and get back to your first question. Of course I have reviewed the report of the Office of the Correctional Investigator. There has been a long-term relationship with the Correctional Service, and they take their recommendations very seriously. This being said, I think, Mr. Easter, facts speak louder than rhetoric.
As I've just indicated, you've seen that we are ready to make sure that inmates are provided with the support and the services they need. This is good for all inmates, male and female, wherever. We have a special aboriginal program, but you are also aware that we are also taking care of those who have severe mental health issues. In that case, as you know, these require many resources: experts, specialists, and we are not afraid to deal with one of the best facilities in Canada, if not in the world, such as the Royal, to make sure we are putting the inmate in an environment where they can succeed.
I believe this is a good investment because if we are able to put those individuals in a safer environment and apply this vision of Correctional Service Canada, those individuals may be able to downgrade into a level of services, and eventually I still think every one of them can return to civilian life unless advised otherwise by a judge.
We are not fearful of investing, as you can see. If we are returning money to the fiscal framework, it is because we have closed two prisons: Kingston and Montreal.
I'd be pleased to answer your first question if you want me to, but I think—
4:05 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Daryl Kramp
No, Mr. Easter, please. You've asked a couple of questions.
You have another brief time, Minister, to answer the other question and then go back to Mr. Easter. Respond briefly, please.
4:05 p.m.
Conservative
Steven Blaney Conservative Lévis—Bellechasse, QC
Mr. Easter, if I may, regarding the telecom, this practice was.... I think your government has enabled this jurisdiction. It was supported by the New Democratic Party at that time, and it makes sure that telecommunications companies cooperate with the agencies on a voluntary basis for the greater safety of this country.
I will be pleased to answer any questions you have, as I've done in the past.
4:05 p.m.
Liberal
Wayne Easter Liberal Malpeque, PE
Yes, I am aware of that legislation, Minister. But we certainly believe in today's world of more telecommunication, where emails and traffic by text, etc., is a part of everyone's daily life.... We are now concerned, and the legislation needs to be improved. We're concerned, and Canadians are concerned. They believe agencies of the Government of Canada are basically using that, maybe it's even a hole, in the legislation to spy on Canadians.
I would make one other point. On the discussion we had on CSC, we do have to take into consideration what the Correctional Service investigator said. It's here in writing and it's in his annual report. I'm outlining it to you as a concern. I'm also told that currently a number of kitchens are being closed within the prison system to save money. Food is being brought in, and that's one of the skills being used to train inmates that will be lost.
Anyway, here's my last question. On two occasions, I raised questions in the House on an internal memo by the Canada Border Services Agency, by the director general, border programs. It was circulated to all regional directors. It stated:
Given the significant role the CBSA plays in the [Government of Canada] export community and the limited number of resources available for export examinations; other commodities, including outbound smuggling of narcotics, unless there is an intelligence lookout, should not be undertaken.
That seems to me to be an invitation that narcotics are not going to be looked at unless specifically requested.
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
4:10 p.m.
Liberal
Wayne Easter Liberal Malpeque, PE
I asked it in the House previously, Mr. Chair.
What is your response, Minister? Is there a risk here? Is CBSA not looking for narcotics under that directive? What's going on?
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
Steven Blaney Conservative Lévis—Bellechasse, QC
On the contrary, when based on intelligence, I would say the operations are not des coups d'épée dans l'eau, but they are more efficient. That's why yesterday, CBSA, along with other agencies, was able to make one of the largest contraband tobacco seizures that has ever taken place in North America. It seems that the work of CBSA is remarkable in this area.