Public Safety Committee on Jan. 27th, 2015

[Don Head]

We offer intensity levels in our programs. A high intensity level program can be as long as 12 weeks. A moderate intensity program is from 8 to 10 weeks. In addition to that initial program we have maintenance programs. One of the things we're always concerned about is that we could give offenders a program early in their sentence while they're still incarcerated. At some point they're going to go out into the community and we'll be supervising them out there in some form of release. We want to make sure that the learning they've gained in those programs continues. We'll have what we call community maintenance programs that will continue to build on the program learning they gained while they were inside the institution.

[The Chair, Conservative, Daryl Kramp]

Ms. Doré Lefebvre, your time is up.

Mr. Payne, go ahead for five minutes.

[LaVar Payne, Conservative, Medicine Hat, AB]

Thank you, Minister, for coming, and the officials as well.

Minister, it's interesting: you talked about the inventive ways in which people can bring drugs into prisons. I happened to attend the remand centre in Medicine Hat with the Solicitor General of Alberta, and we actually talked about it. In fact, they have this open yard area where the inmates go to get some exercise and so on. They actually ended up having to put nets over top of the yard because people were throwing in projectiles and getting drugs into the prison. That certainly speaks to your point on that.

There are other ways, and I think some of our colleagues here have talked about people's ability to find ways to get drugs into prisons. I know that recently one of the correctional officers was charged. He was implicated in trying to get drugs into the prison for some of the prisoners. That situation is ongoing as well.

Also, Minister, in your opening remarks you talked about numbers. I wonder if you could expand on those numbers regarding the drug seizures in particular, and on what kinds of drugs and what amounts we have seen coming into our facilities.

[Steven Blaney, Conservative, Lévis—Bellechasse, QC]

I thank you for your question.

Once again we have two different visions here. Our government has been dedicated to and involved in eradicating the presence of drugs in our facilities. We are moving in the right direction. I've given you this number, that 87% of those who have undergone drug testing have tested negative. It doesn't mean it's all perfect, but it certainly is a step in the right direction. You're right to mention that there have been seizures of drugs in our facilities. Regarding this vision, I would also like to say that we know the impact of drugs on society. We know the impact of drug addictions that destroy lives, that lead to violence and sometimes to crime. We see the Liberals who want to legalize drugs and promote drugs, and we know the vicious impact of marijuana on the brain of young Canadians. We feel we have to go in the other direction and give a helping hand to those who are caught in addiction. That's why we are implementing strategies and therapies within our own prisons and facilities to help individuals to go back better equipped than they were when they entered the facility. That's why it's important that while they are in a facility we have zero tolerance for the presence of drugs.

In fiscal year 2013-14 there were 2,406 drug-related seizures in federal prisons. In the same fiscal year, 838 offenders incurred a drug-related institutional charge. That number illustrates that this is a big challenge for our facilities, but we don't want to turn a blind eye to it. Actually when we find someone with drugs, that's the beginning of a solution for that inmate, because then we know we have a problem and we are able to offer him therapy, and he can embark on a true journey to rehabilitation. That's how we are dealing with this.

With the bill in front of you today, we are providing more tools for Correctional Service Canada to help inmates reach their objective or rehabilitation by getting free of drug-related addiction.

[LaVar Payne, Conservative, Medicine Hat, AB]

I agree, Minister, that rehabilitation certainly is the best way to go.

You also talked about needle exchange, Minister, and that gives me a bit of a problem. I see needles as having uses other than the injection of drugs. Certainly I don't believe that in a prison situation providing needles, which are potentially weapons to inmates, would help solve anything.

[The Chair, Conservative, Daryl Kramp]

Keep it very brief.

[Steven Blaney, Conservative, Lévis—Bellechasse, QC]

I could not agree more, and we also have to think of the safety of the correctional services officer.

[The Chair, Conservative, Daryl Kramp]

That's fine. Thank you.

Now we'll hear from Mr. Rousseau.

You have five minutes.

[Jean Rousseau, NDP, Compton—Stanstead, QC]

Minister, thank you very much for your time this morning.

When these types of bills are presented, we often wonder whether there are sufficient financial and human resources to implement these good intentions. By “good intentions” I of course mean rehabilitation—which is very important to us—and ensuring that people undergo testing.

I want to stress the importance of a proper diagnosis. In fact, a number of substance abuse problems stem from mental illness. So a proper diagnosis must be made, followed by the appropriate treatment. How can we be sure that you will have the required financial and human resources, and that Correctional Service Canada will have access to them?

[Steven Blaney, Conservative, Lévis—Bellechasse, QC]

Thank you for your question.

I agree with you that addiction and substance abuse constitute aggravating factors. We often see a pattern of mental health problems coupled with substance abuse. This is an explosive combination that can lead to highly regrettable actions and severe imbalances.

As for treatments, I am am showing you this morning that programs are available. They are provided to inmates. The commissioner did say that treatments are available to inmates so that, once they are eligible for parole, they will have had access to treatment to kick their habit.

We have also seen that inmates undergo testing as soon as they enter our penitentiaries. Some $10 million is invested in substance abuse prevention in federal correctional facilities.

However, I would like to return to the most impressive figure from this morning. When an inmate needs treatment, they receive it in 95% of cases. The resources are available, and it is important for us to ensure we can identify people who need treatment.

I would say that, the more effective we become in terms of identifying drug abuse issues through testing or through drug seizures—and we have seen the figures increase because we are more stringent—the greater our ability to provide rehabilitation treatments. The truth is in the numbers.

We are making this investment because, if substance abuse issues are curbed and we help people free themselves of their addiction, they will be less likely to reoffend and more likely to become productive members of society. We will continue to make the necessary resources available. So I hope we will have your support, as this bill will help us better identify inmates with substance abuse problems and send a clear message that inmates who wish to reintegrate into society will have access to tools that will help them end their drug habit.

We will also make even more tools available to help prevent illicit substances from coming into federal institutions.

[Jean Rousseau, NDP, Compton—Stanstead, QC]

This is a well-known problem. We often hear testimony from reoffenders—people who get out of prison, only to return. They say it is very easy for them to get what they want and that a well-established infrastructure exists within our correctional system. They talked about projectiles and all sorts of things. Ways to gain access to a variety of drugs are now very diversified. It even appears that people are making drugs on site using various substances obtained at different times. Ultimately, they are making a cocktail.

How can this be prevented? As I often say, outside gang structures are sometimes reproduced on the inside.

[Steven Blaney, Conservative, Lévis—Bellechasse, QC]

Thank you for your question.

I would very much like to tell you that there is no problem, but that is not the case. Urine tests inmates undergo are positive in 13% of cases.

We know that the majority of inmates have substance abuse issues. However, the situation in Canada is no different from that in other countries. All prison systems around the world, without exception, have issues with substance abuse, and none of them have managed to completely eliminate drugs.

The objective of the bill before you this morning is to take the bull by the horns. This is a step in the right direction. We will have to keep at it, but I think that correctional services are doing their best. Our role, as elected representatives, is to provide them with as many tools as possible. That is what we are proposing to you today. I hope you will support the bill we have presented this morning.

[Jean Rousseau, NDP, Compton—Stanstead, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Blaney.

[The Chair, Conservative, Daryl Kramp]

Thank you very much, Minister.

We've finished our first hour of deliberations. The minister will be leaving now.

Minister, we would like to thank you for your attendance here today.

We will suspend for one moment while the minister is leaving, then we will recommence with further questions.

[The Chair, Conservative, Daryl Kramp]

Colleagues, we will resume this session now, and we will start with our rounds of questioning.

For the first seven minutes, we will start with Mr. Falk. You have the floor, sir.

[Ted Falk, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

Commissioner, I'd like to talk to you about some of the comments the minister made earlier. He talked about some of the seizures that have been made, and just recently gave some updated statistics.

There are always two sides to everything. There are two sides to the ledger—the income and the expense side, and the supply and demand. We'll look at the supply side a little bit.

I'm wondering if you could expand on some of the trajectory you've experienced in the seizures in the last five years.

[Don Head]

Yes. If you don't mind, I'll actually go back in time. This coming week it will be 37 years ago that I first started working in a penitentiary. In those days when I started as a correctional officer the kinds of tools that were available to us were pretty limited. It was basically our good sense, our good nose and observation skills. With the investments that we've received over the last five years, we've been able to enhance our ability to better detect drugs coming into the institution.

We have seen an increase in seizures. We've seen an increase in seizures through visitors. We've seen an increase in seizures, unfortunately, of drugs being introduced by some staff members. We've also, as the minister pointed out, seen an increase, which has also been intercepted by our staff, in the introduction of drugs through indirect means, so the use of drugs being tied to arrows and being shot into the yard. We've seen recently the use of drones, these UAVs, starting to hover over our fences with packages being dropped in. We've seen tennis balls that have been hollowed out and launched through grapefruit-gun kinds of things with drugs being shot into the exercise yards. We've even seen dead birds whose insides have been removed and have been launched into the yard with drugs inside to make it look like a bird has fallen from the sky.

We have seen an increase in seizures. I attribute that to the great work of my staff. There's always the debate: do more seizures mean you're doing a better job, or that there are more drugs in the institution? I really don't care which way the debate goes. If drugs are getting in there, our job is to find them and stop them. If the numbers are going up, it means my staff are finding them. At this point in time, I feel relatively comfortable about that.

[Ted Falk, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

Good. It was mentioned earlier that there is rehabilitation treatment available. You've had a lot of experience over the years, and I'd like to get a few comments from you on your experience. Do inmates with substance abuse problems want rehabilitation?

[Don Head]

What we see particularly with individuals who come into the federal system is that they've gone through the provincial system a number of times before they end up coming our way. Given that our provincial and territorial colleagues, unfortunately, do not have the same suite of programs that we have available, offenders are at first reluctant to become involved in programming.

One of the things I think is worth noting, and the minister alluded to it, is that we take a lot of time and effort doing front-end assessments of offenders. We look at all kinds of social and economic histories, including individuals who may have been using substances, drugs, alcohol, or anything else. We identify in that first 90-day period whether an individual has a substance abuse problem and what programs to get them involved with. At that point our staff, particularly the parole officers, and even our program delivery officers, start to engage the offenders to convince them that it's in their best interest to follow their correctional plan and to participate in those programs.

As time goes on, there's always a cohort in the population who are very deeply entrenched in their criminal behaviour and will not participate in programs. A lot of the security threat groups, or gangs as they're commonly referred to, will resist that, but a lot of inmates, as time goes on, see the benefit of participating in programs. They see the opportunities it provides them in terms of moving to lesser security within the system. They see the opportunities that are available to them in terms of other employment opportunities within the penitentiaries, and they see the opportunities that are available for them in terms of conditional release, such as day parole or full parole.

[Ted Falk, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

The minister mentioned that this bill that is before us creates an incentive for positive behaviour, an incentive for inmates to remain substance-free. I project myself into their position and I think I would agree with that. I think this is an excellent bill to create an incentive that would allow me, if I were in that situation, to be eligible for parole, to get day parole sooner, to get early parole perhaps. I think it's a great incentive for an inmate to look at and say, “Boy, if I can remain drug-free, alcohol-free, it's worth it to me because I get to see my family and my friends that much sooner.”

Do you think that's a good incentive?

[Don Head]

There's always the debate around incentives and disincentives and what works or what doesn't work.

When I look over the last five years, in terms of the kinds of measures we've put in place coupled with the treatment programs, and particularly offenders who are going out into the community and who have conditions to abstain from the use of substances, the number of individuals who are violating that condition is being reduced. Once they're out in the community, offenders see the advantages of being out there. They don't want to come back to my big houses. They want to stay out. So, we are seeing a reduction.

About five years ago around 4% to 5% of offenders who were out on day parole, full parole, were being revoked for violating their abstinence clause. Last year that was down to 2.8%. The combination of the approaches we're using, the detection methods we're using, the treatment programs we're offering, and the maintenance programs are driving those numbers down. We still have a lot of work to do, but it's moving in the right direction.

[The Chair, Conservative, Daryl Kramp]

Thank you very much. Your time is over, Mr. Falk.

We will now go to Mr. Garrison, please, for seven minutes.

[Randall Garrison, NDP, Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca, BC]

Thank you, officials, for staying and sharing your time with us.

I want to start with Mr. Cenaiko and talk about what's in this bill to make sure we're on the right track here.

What I see in the bill is putting into law explicitly what is already Parole Board practice. I want to know if Mr. Cenaiko sees that.

[Harvey Cenaiko, Chairperson, National Parole Board]

Mr. Chair, before I start, I'd like to remind elected officials of the purpose of conditional release itself. It is to “contribute to the maintenance of a just, peaceful and safe society by means of decisions on the timing and conditions of release that will best facilitate the rehabilitation of offenders and their reintegration into the community as law-abiding citizens”. The paramount consideration in all board decisions is the protection of the public.

This bill will amend the Corrections and Conditional Release Act to specifically stipulate that Correctional Service Canada will advise the board prior to an offender's release that the offender has tested positive in a urinalysis or has refused or failed to provide a urine sample. This has been in practice for some time; however, now it will be the law. Of course that law has to be taken into consideration, just as section 100 of the act is regarding the purpose and principles of conditional release.

[Randall Garrison, NDP, Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca, BC]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Head, without a written statement from the minister, some of the statistics he presented seem to be quite spectacular. I'm looking for some confirmation.

One of the things he said by implication was that when people enter the system, 75% need drug treatment and now only 13% are failing. That is a success rate of almost 90% for your eight- to ten-week programs. That would be a spectacular success rate. I wonder if you have any documentation you could table with this committee or whether there's some misunderstanding.