Evidence of meeting #8 for Public Safety and National Security in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was programs.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Anne Kelly  Senior Deputy Commissioner, Correctional Service of Canada
Bob Paulson  Commissioner of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, Royal Canadian Mounted Police
François Guimont  Deputy Minister, Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness
Luc Portelance  President, Canada Border Services Agency

12:10 p.m.

Senior Deputy Commissioner, Correctional Service of Canada

Anne Kelly

On aboriginal programming specifically, we offer a number of programs and interventions. One that we're quite proud of is the Pathways initiative, and maybe that's what you were referring to. Our Pathways initiatives have actually increased from 7 to 25. This is a traditional environment, and for aboriginal offenders who choose to follow their healing path, they can be placed in those Pathways. In terms of other types of programs, we have specific programs for aboriginals that target substance abuse, violence prevention, and family violence.

12:10 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Daryl Kramp

Thank you. I'm sorry, we're out of time on this, but thank you very much.

We will now go to Mr. Bélanger for seven minutes.

12:10 p.m.

Liberal

Mauril Bélanger Liberal Ottawa—Vanier, ON

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Guimont, ladies and gentlemen, I'm disappointed that the minister left the meeting after half an hour, but there it is.

The Correctional Service of Canada accommodation plan 2013-18 indicates about $1 billion in assessed needs, following the closure of Kingston Penitentiary, Leclerc Institution and the Ontario Regional Treatment Centre. It was assessed that the buildings that were in poor or critical condition and needed to be repaired constituted $1 billion of the total value of the existing facilities.

Could you please tell us how you intend to address this problem?

12:10 p.m.

Senior Deputy Commissioner, Correctional Service of Canada

Anne Kelly

Thank you for your question.

We have obtained some investments enabling us to build new units, which will give us an additional 2,752 cells—

12:10 p.m.

Liberal

Mauril Bélanger Liberal Ottawa—Vanier, ON

I'm talking about existing facilities, the ones in poor or critical condition.

Do you intend to demolish them?

12:10 p.m.

Senior Deputy Commissioner, Correctional Service of Canada

12:10 p.m.

Liberal

Mauril Bélanger Liberal Ottawa—Vanier, ON

How are you going to repair them?

12:10 p.m.

Senior Deputy Commissioner, Correctional Service of Canada

Anne Kelly

I don't have that information here today. I would have to send you that information.

12:10 p.m.

Liberal

Mauril Bélanger Liberal Ottawa—Vanier, ON

Could you please send it to the clerk?

12:10 p.m.

Senior Deputy Commissioner, Correctional Service of Canada

December 3rd, 2013 / 12:10 p.m.

Liberal

Mauril Bélanger Liberal Ottawa—Vanier, ON

Back to double bunking for a minute.

According to the Correctional Service Canada’s 2011–12 report on plans and priorities, and I'm going to quote two passages, one on page 12, “double-bunking at these levels....” These levels are now 3,000, roughly; if the minister said 15,000, then 20% is 3,000.

Double-bunking at these levels increases the risk to safety and security in institutions because of pressures that inevitably arise in crowded conditions combined with the tensions that exist among some inmate groups.

The other one is on page 19:

…in the context of anticipated increases in the offender population and the consequent rise in double bunking, CSC will be challenged to meet its targets with regard to the reduction of assaults and violent incidents in institutions.

How do you respond to that, given what we've heard already this morning? These are from your own department.

12:15 p.m.

Senior Deputy Commissioner, Correctional Service of Canada

Anne Kelly

Again, in terms of our population management approach, it's a multifaceted approach.

The first thing we do is ensure that all available cells are used. We have national population management strategy committees at both the national and the regional levels. This is something that we follow closely. We do make use of double bunking, and currently it's at the 20% level; however, with the building of the new units, which is going to give us 2,752 additional cells, we believe we'll be able to manage the capacity we have until at least 2018. The other thing we can do is make use of inter-regional transfers to manage our population.

12:15 p.m.

Liberal

Mauril Bélanger Liberal Ottawa—Vanier, ON

Am I hearing you say that the level of double bunking will essentially be maintained?

12:15 p.m.

Senior Deputy Commissioner, Correctional Service of Canada

Anne Kelly

No, actually with the addition of the new cells, with most of them online by the end of March 2014, we expect to return to a level of double bunking of around 8%.

12:15 p.m.

Liberal

Mauril Bélanger Liberal Ottawa—Vanier, ON

When?

12:15 p.m.

Senior Deputy Commissioner, Correctional Service of Canada

Anne Kelly

This is once all of the units have come online.

12:15 p.m.

Liberal

Mauril Bélanger Liberal Ottawa—Vanier, ON

Thank you.

Mr. Paulson, can you give me a sense of the costs related to the new headquarters of the RCMP? What are we up to now?

12:15 p.m.

Commissioner Bob Paulson Commissioner of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, Royal Canadian Mounted Police

No, I can't.

12:15 p.m.

Liberal

Mauril Bélanger Liberal Ottawa—Vanier, ON

Can you supply that information to the committee?

12:15 p.m.

Commr Bob Paulson

Well, I'd have to go looking for it, so I don't think I can.

12:15 p.m.

Liberal

Mauril Bélanger Liberal Ottawa—Vanier, ON

I understand you don't have them with you, but presumably someone has that.

12:15 p.m.

Commr Bob Paulson

Just maybe help me understand your question here.

12:15 p.m.

Liberal

Mauril Bélanger Liberal Ottawa—Vanier, ON

I gather the headquarters are moving to the old JDS Uniphase facilities.

12:15 p.m.

Commr Bob Paulson

It's done. It's been done for years.

12:15 p.m.

Liberal

Mauril Bélanger Liberal Ottawa—Vanier, ON

What are the costs associated with that?