Evidence of meeting #6 for Special Committee on Cooperatives in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was co-ops.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Lyndon Carlson  Senior Vice-President, Marketing, Farm Credit Canada
Rob Malli  Chief Financial Officer, Vancouver City Savings Credit Union
Michael Hoffort  Senior Vice-President, Portfolio and Credit Risk, Farm Credit Canada
Glen Tully  President of the Board, Home Office, Federated Co-operatives Limited
Vic Huard  Vice-President, Corporate Affairs, Home Office, Federated Co-operatives Limited
Andy Morrison  Chief Executive Officer, Arctic Co-operatives Limited
John McBain  Vice-President, Alberta Association of Co-operative Seed Cleaning Plants
Shona McGlashan  Chief Governance Officer, Mountain Equipment Co-op
Margie Parikh  Vice-Chair, Board of Directors, Mountain Equipment Co-op
Neil Hastie  President and Chief Executive Officer, Encorp Pacific (Canada)
Kenneth Hood  President, Kootenay Columbia Seniors Housing Cooperative
Darren Kitchen  Director, Government Relations, Co-operative Housing Federation of British Columbia

4:50 p.m.

Conservative

Pierre Lemieux Conservative Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON

Thanks, Chair.

Actually, I'm interested in following up, I guess, where Brad was going and where I ended off with my last five minutes, when I was rudely cut off by the chair, with respect, Chair.

4:50 p.m.

NDP

Dan Harris NDP Scarborough Southwest, ON

That didn't sound very respectful.

4:50 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Blake Richards

And I'll do it again.

4:50 p.m.

Voices

Oh, oh!

4:50 p.m.

Conservative

Pierre Lemieux Conservative Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON

Yes, sir.

What I was going to say was that as I listened to the dialogue go back and forth I was not convinced it would be a great idea for the federal government to get intimately involved in social housing if right now it's with the provinces. I say that from an accountability point of view. I understand if someone's not pleased with the decision-making of a level of government then it's let's get the other level of government involved, they'll set them straight. But actually it does remove accountability for the level of government under which that responsibility falls, if that makes sense. Sometimes by bringing in another level of government, it might give the illusion that this will solve our problems, but I'm not convinced it will.

Things do get complicated, as you can imagine. Mr. Harris is talking about all the provinces and territories across Canada. It can get complicated on these matters. When we provide money for affordable housing, it does get spent on affordable housing. We do ensure that. I've been at the announcements. For example, in my riding I know how much money's flowed into the riding for that. I've stood there, and been part of the announcements. So it is.

I understand what you're saying. The province can remove that element from their budget and park it somewhere else so it doesn't go to affordable housing. I understand that. Anyway, I just wanted to get your opinion on that, because I'm not convinced it would achieve what you might like it to achieve.

4:55 p.m.

Director, Government Relations, Co-operative Housing Federation of British Columbia

Darren Kitchen

I think I may have given a slightly misleading impression that I wanted the federal government to write a 200-page contract in six-point type, specifying the purpose of every dollar that was contributed. That's not quite my meaning.

What I think I would like to see is a broad measure of housing need that was being addressed by the federal money. I don't think.... The provinces may not even want to do that. I couldn't say. But I think they should need to demonstrate that they have reduced housing need across the population in a meaningful way.

4:55 p.m.

Conservative

Pierre Lemieux Conservative Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON

It is challenging, I'll just say that, because you can end up having finger-pointing, where if pressure is brought to bear on the province because they didn't fulfill this need, they just point and say the feds had their finger in this; if we had been allowed, we would have.... Then the feds point to the provinces and say that's clearly a provincial responsibility, even though we're involved. That's where I think things get complicated.

I think if it belongs in the province, it should be in the province. Yes, federal money should participate, and it does, but I think really the elected representatives at the provincial level need to be responsible and accountable for their decisions. If housing falls under them, it falls under them, and you can hold them to account on it.

4:55 p.m.

Director, Government Relations, Co-operative Housing Federation of British Columbia

Darren Kitchen

We do try.

4:55 p.m.

Conservative

Pierre Lemieux Conservative Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON

I'm sure.

I wanted to ask you about cooperation among provinces. I know you're provincially based, but do you work with housing co-ops—social housing co-ops, affordable housing co-ops—in other provinces? Perhaps from that perspective, are there lessons learned, like how does your province do it, or what are your feelings about the way your province is managing this? Do you have a mechanism for that?

4:55 p.m.

Director, Government Relations, Co-operative Housing Federation of British Columbia

Darren Kitchen

Yes. We work very closely with CHF Canada, our national federation, and they're kind of the meeting point for all of those discussions.

You mentioned things getting complicated with the provinces, and I couldn't agree more, because the provincial legislation differs every time you cross a border. But we work with them to look at what lessons can be learned in different parts of the country, and apply it in others.

4:55 p.m.

Conservative

Pierre Lemieux Conservative Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON

Right, okay.

As I said, affordable housing is not my area of expertise, but I would like to understand. There's capital money that is provided by governments to help build units. Is there any kind of operation and maintenance money as well that would sustain housing at low rent, because it's supposed to be affordable housing? Is there an annual contribution that goes to projects to sustain the low rent?

4:55 p.m.

Director, Government Relations, Co-operative Housing Federation of British Columbia

Darren Kitchen

What mainly happens in most co-ops is that a monthly subsidy comes to the co-op. It's based on the mortgage rate, and it's probably too complicated to explain right now.

4:55 p.m.

Conservative

Pierre Lemieux Conservative Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON

Is it from the government, though?

4:55 p.m.

Director, Government Relations, Co-operative Housing Federation of British Columbia

Darren Kitchen

Yes.

This is what we're talking about when we talk about the problem of the end of the operating agreement, because that monthly subsidy comes in, the co-op gets it, and uses it to offset the difference between what its low-income members can afford to pay and what it costs to run the unit.

4:55 p.m.

Conservative

Pierre Lemieux Conservative Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON

Oh, that was an earlier question I had. Is the rent that people pay—

4:55 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Blake Richards

Hold on, your time has expired.

4:55 p.m.

Conservative

Pierre Lemieux Conservative Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON

Okay, I'll let him finish answering.

4:55 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Blake Richards

Did you have anything you wanted to say to wrap up the answer?

4:55 p.m.

Director, Government Relations, Co-operative Housing Federation of British Columbia

Darren Kitchen

No, I think I've got it.

4:55 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Blake Richards

Okay, thank you.

I see that we're almost at five o'clock, so I thank the witnesses for their contributions today.

I'll suspend the meeting now.

[Proceedings continue in camera]