Evidence of meeting #6 for Special Committee on Cooperatives in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was co-ops.
A video is available from Parliament.
4:20 p.m.
Conservative
Ray Boughen Conservative Palliser, SK
Is the complex really a combination of private and public ownership in terms of the co-op being designated public?
4:20 p.m.
President, Kootenay Columbia Seniors Housing Cooperative
No, the members got together, and the people who live there bought the land. The co-op lent us money. The mortgages they hold are on separate titles so that they don't affect the residents who live there.
4:20 p.m.
Conservative
Ray Boughen Conservative Palliser, SK
I thought that was right. Then I heard you say that you would look at a developer, maybe, to do some work on the site rather than having it done through the co-op. Is that what I heard?
4:20 p.m.
President, Kootenay Columbia Seniors Housing Cooperative
We're trying to get the Château Grandview off the ground. The first phase has 62 units of supportive living. We have seven people who have signed on the dotted line, and so far, to date, they are willing to finance their individual units the same way we financed our individual homes. They put the money in, and it's taken out as the thing grows. We said from the start that we would not move ahead unless we had 31 sales. That's the hurdle. People like to see the shovel turned before they invest.
4:20 p.m.
President, Kootenay Columbia Seniors Housing Cooperative
We haven't sold the 31 yet, but we're working hard on it.
4:20 p.m.
Conservative
4:20 p.m.
Director, Government Relations, Co-operative Housing Federation of British Columbia
I'm not. I haven't been invited, and it doesn't sound to me like they need all that much help.
Typically we've focused on non-profit co-ops, as opposed to the equity side of things. As I say, I think and I hope that will change in the future as we look for more affordable home ownership options, as opposed to rental co-ops.
I can certainly see us, through our partnership with Terra and Vancity, getting much more involved in that side of things. There's certainly interest in a number of the municipalities for that kind of thing.
4:20 p.m.
Conservative
Ray Boughen Conservative Palliser, SK
Thank you.
Being sensitive to your decree, Mr. Chair, back to you.
4:25 p.m.
Conservative
4:25 p.m.
Conservative
Ray Boughen Conservative Palliser, SK
Mr. Hood, what does it look like in terms of the project being completed? Right now you're in kind of a holding pattern. Do you see some funds becoming available with Vancity or with Mr. Kitchen's help? What does the project look like?
4:25 p.m.
President, Kootenay Columbia Seniors Housing Cooperative
We have the money available. We have a mortgage available.
The interim financing is the holdup from B.C. Housing, where it's 1% versus 5%-plus out on the market, which we have a problem with, because interim financing just means during the construction period and then after that the mortgage kicks in and takes over. So we wonder why governments don't get involved.
The CMHC's reluctance to guarantee the strata title is another hurdle.
4:25 p.m.
Conservative
Ray Boughen Conservative Palliser, SK
I think governments are involved. A couple of billion dollars is a fair bit of involvement. It may not be enough, but it's certainly a commitment, I would say.
Thanks, Mr. Chair.
4:25 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Blake Richards
Thank you.
We'll now go to Mr. Harris. You have the floor for the next five minutes.
4:25 p.m.
NDP
Dan Harris NDP Scarborough Southwest, ON
Thank you, and thank you to the witnesses for coming today.
Certainly I think that when the federal government is providing money it has a responsibility to ensure that it's actually going to the ends where the government sees that money going. So if it's supposed to go to housing it should ensure that it is going to housing and doesn't end up in general revenues--that is to say, a similar situation to what happened to all the funds that were in EI. They were supposed to be for unemployed workers; now they've gone into general revenues, and that money is gone.
Going back to CMHC—and this one is something I've touched on with a number of witnesses—with respect to the penalties being paid, as I understand, Mr. Kitchen, at the Co-op Housing Federation's annual general meeting in Niagara Falls, the chair at that meeting was instructed to write a letter to the Minister of Human Resources and Skills Development, stating that excessive interest penalties are applied on the pay-out of CMHC direct lending mortgages for social housing providers, preventing those from refinancing for necessary capital improvements; that interest penalties should be reduced to be consistent with the Canadian commercial banking sector mortgage administration practices; and that CMHC should urgently review the interest penalty provisions in the existing direct lending mortgages, and seek ways to extend relief in this regard.
That mirrors what you've said today in terms of funding—
4:25 p.m.
Director, Government Relations, Co-operative Housing Federation of British Columbia
Surprise, surprise.
4:25 p.m.
NDP
Dan Harris NDP Scarborough Southwest, ON
—and what others have said to find that middle ground.
As Monsieur Bélanger said, nobody reasonably expects to not have to pay penalties, and that those agreements were gone into. But others have said that there's perhaps a middle ground to be found. And in terms of reinvesting the money, CMHC could certainly do that to offset any additional costs they have.
Do you know if that letter has been sent to the minister yet?
4:25 p.m.
Director, Government Relations, Co-operative Housing Federation of British Columbia
I'm sure it has been sent. Whether there's been a response or not, I couldn't say. That would have been correspondence between the minister and CHF Canada.
4:25 p.m.
NDP
Dan Harris NDP Scarborough Southwest, ON
I'm sure the Co-op Housing Federation of Canada will let us know at some point before August 7 or before this committee meets again if there's been a response from the minister to that letter.
You also mentioned in your testimony that some of the land you've gotten through Vancouver was leased from the city. Did that idea come out of the 2001 study that you engaged in that says that leasing at below-market rates is possible for local governments? Was it through that study that you worked with the city to make that arrangement?
4:25 p.m.
Director, Government Relations, Co-operative Housing Federation of British Columbia
No, that was kind of an update of what had been a longstanding practice in Vancouver, especially of the city, which often acquires land as a result of development agreements, rezonings, stuff like that. They get a piece of land from a developer and they use it for affordable housing. For many years there were many—about half of the co-ops in Vancouver, and there are 100 of them—on land leased from the city. It's a longstanding practice. It's just something we continued with the Athletes Village Co-op.
4:30 p.m.
NDP
Dan Harris NDP Scarborough Southwest, ON
Going back to CMHC, there are a couple of pilot projects out there, and Alterna Savings is involved in one of them, seeking to blend and extend the mortgages. Have you had any experience with this type of endeavour or attempts to make those changes yet?