Special Committee on Cooperatives Committee on July 27th, 2012

[Jodie Stark]

That's one model. They are an umbrella organization. Underneath them are the hotels, gas, telecommunications, grocery stores, and so forth.

They don't have a financial co-op model up there, but they are looking for ways to do that. Unfortunately, there are some legislative restrictions that make it difficult for credit unions to get up and running there. I believe that they lack the credit union legislation up there at this time, because they're new. These are new regions.

There's that type of model, with an umbrella organization that oversees a number of different co-ops in different areas.

The Federated Co-operatives is another model that's been very successful in Saskatchewan. That model has been around for about 90 years. In that one, the individual co-ops are managed under general managers in various areas and have their own governance schemes. But the Federated Co-op provides the wholesale distribution, whether it be for fuel, groceries, or whatever.

[Pierre Lemieux, Conservative, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Do you never see a co-op model where goods and services, including financial services, are offered under a single co-op? In other words, their membership is not that of other co-ops, with each one providing a service? Rather, their membership is people generally and one co-op is offering them financial services, and goods. Do you ever have that kind of model?

[Jodie Stark]

That’s one thing I had suggested Arctic Co-op consider doing because they were in such desperate need of financial services up in the northern areas. The model I suggested was that they incorporate, that they have a fund to create a retail association so that the money would flow in and out through their own retail association, which would have federal powers. We wouldn't have to wait for legislation, then, because it exists now. ATM machines could be located right in their co-op store for when people do their grocery shopping. That way, they don't have to deal manually with a lot of cash, which was one of the issues for Arctic Co-op, dealing with the cash inflow and outflow. That's one model that could potentially work.

[Pierre Lemieux, Conservative, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Has it been used elsewhere?

[Jodie Stark]

Not that I'm aware of. That's not to say that it hasn't been. I'm not certain that it has; I'm not aware of it.

[Pierre Lemieux, Conservative, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Okay.

On the state of financial cooperatives in Canada, certainly the impression we've received from the witnesses come is that, first of all, financial cooperatives are successful. Second, they seem to be responsive to financing requests from other co-ops partly because they're a co-op and partly because they try to find innovative solutions to barriers, I suppose, that might exist to co-ops seeking financing.

Would that be the experience here?

[Jodie Stark]

I see a lot of the work. The work that we've done in Concentra Trust, for example, offering corporate trustee services to new co-ops starting up somewhere in the country, which need to issue debentures and a trustee for that. It's that kind of thing. We will offer a helping hand.

[Pierre Lemieux, Conservative, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

You offer expertise.

[Jodie Stark]

Yes, expertise, a helping hand, and reduced rates usually to our cooperative partners. Our fees are usually reduced just because they're part of the cooperative system. In particular, we look at our registered plan program in Canada. Our credit union partners get a significant discount in the fees we charge, compared to the market rate.

[Pierre Lemieux, Conservative, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

That has been my sense, that financial cooperatives help other cooperatives.

[The Chair, Conservative, Blake Richards]

Thank you.

Your time has expired. I didn't hear a question in there.

Ms. Blanchette-Lamothe, you have five minutes.

[Lysane Blanchette-Lamothe, NDP, Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC]

Thank you.

I will, of course, be asking my questions in French.

My colleague said that he was pleased to see that our cooperatives are doing well. I find that interesting, but I think that we have to be careful not to take it for granted. One of the functions of this committee is to ensure that the federal government is proactive, that our cooperatives remain healthy and that they become strong.

Mr. Lapointe and Mr. Archer, could you tell us what obstacles stand in the way of starting cooperatives in the area of health, for example?

[Tim Archer]

If we talk about our own federation and our own individual cooperative health centres in Saskatchewan, they are very strong financially. They've been around for a long time and have built that maturity over time through very strong relationships with the Ministry of Health as well as with the local regional health authorities. We consider our relationships strong, but because of the provincial nature of health funding, I think initiating new health co-ops—building, forging, and nurturing those relationships—is a difficult task indeed. Health ministries are basically the largest ministries in all the provinces and are highly complex. Grassroots organizations who are trying to fill cracks in the health system, to address a community-based need, face a significant obstacle in navigating those organizations. I think they could use additional support federally and provincially to actually get rolling and get initiated.

[Patrick Lapointe]

The other part of this is that provincial governments, which have the mandate for health care, have been forming health regions or health districts and have a tendency to want to own, operate, and deliver their own health services.

[Lysane Blanchette-Lamothe, NDP, Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC]

I just want to make sure that you are answering my question.

Are there additional measures that could be taken at the federal level to support emerging cooperatives in the area of health, for example. Are there obstacles?

[Patrick Lapointe]

Not at the federal level. It's mostly at the provincial level that it's challenging to get to support, because it is the provinces that have the mandate to deliver health-care services. In fact, the federal government has less and less of a role, as you can see in the Globe and Mail this morning.

[Tim Archer]

But I think the federal government does have a responsibility to support co-op development by making sure there's a model in place to support education about and awareness of it, and to promote it, even through start-up grants and start-up opportunities. Even though they don't directly control how the health dollars are spent, I think they can be a model and/or good stewards of the co-op model.

[Lysane Blanchette-Lamothe, NDP, Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC]

What effect would the support from the federal government that you just mentioned have on cooperatives?

[Tim Archer]

I think it's really a way of showing leadership to say that this is an important model in delivering health care in this particular instance. It's really a way of showing leadership to say this is important and you should be paying attention to it. Exactly the format of how that's governed and divvied out, I don't have the answer to that.

[Patrick Lapointe]

But the federal government has provided funds for the development of cooperatives. It has channeled them to the Canadian Co-operative Association and then down to the provincial level. That's been an advantage for young cooperatives to get access to funds to develop business plans, to put together proposals, to help them incorporate. It's that initiation of cooperatives so they can get their feet underneath them that requires the most support.

[Lysane Blanchette-Lamothe, NDP, Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC]

Do you think that this funding is still relevant or do you think that it is no longer needed and could be done away with?

[The Chair, Conservative, Blake Richards]

The time has expired for the round of questioning, but I'll ask that the response be very brief.

[Tim Archer]

Yes, we believe that is a critical part to the development of new co-ops especially. Once they get established they are very much self sustaining. But it's that initiation support to get them rolling that's critical, to build the business plans, and to get some start-up funds to get rolling. That's the part, I think, that's really hampering new co-ops from getting established.

[The Chair, Conservative, Blake Richards]

Thank you very much. I appreciate your keeping that brief.

We'll now move back to the government side.

Ms. Rempel, the floor is yours for the next five minutes.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Centre-North, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'll direct my questions first to Mr. Archer and Mr. Lapointe.

In 2003, the Alberta government launched an initiative called the primary care initiative, with the goal of bringing together the primary care service providers operating in individual clinics to better deliver services for primary care by coordinating care with some of the services you've mentioned already today, including dieticians, mental health services, counselling, etc., for patients with complex and chronic conditions, because it was recognized that primary care providers are front-line providers of heath care.

I think, at this point, the primary care initiative, through over 40 primary care networks in Alberta, encompasses over 2,500 primary care practitioners in Alberta. So this is a model in which physicians have come together to deliver services in a coordinated way that doesn't utilize a cooperative model.

Perhaps you could speak to some of the advantages and differentiation that you see between that model—which is working—and the cooperative one.