Evidence of meeting #5 for Special Committee on Violence Against Indigenous Women in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was indigenous.
A recording is available from Parliament.
6:50 p.m.
Conservative
Lois Brown Conservative Newmarket—Aurora, ON
Was there a call for a national inquiry before 2000? Is that something that—
6:50 p.m.
Researcher, Women's Rights Division, Human Rights Watch Canada
I do not know.
6:50 p.m.
Conservative
6:50 p.m.
Researcher, Women's Rights Division, Human Rights Watch Canada
No. Our engagement—
6:50 p.m.
NDP
The Vice-Chair NDP Jean Crowder
Sorry, Ms. Bennett, but you don't have the floor.
You have only five seconds, so please continue.
6:50 p.m.
Researcher, Women's Rights Division, Human Rights Watch Canada
We did not engage on this issue before 2011.
6:50 p.m.
NDP
The Vice-Chair NDP Jean Crowder
Thank you, Ms. Brown.
Ms. Mathyssen, you have five minutes.
We're now in the five-minute round, so the questions and responses will have to take place within five minutes.
6:50 p.m.
NDP
Irene Mathyssen NDP London—Fanshawe, ON
Thank you very much, Madam Chair.
To the witnesses, thank you for your presentation. I appreciate it very much.
I have to say there have been all kinds of recommendations, in fact, over 100,000 recommendations. I was on the status of women committee in 2010 when we engaged in that travel across the country. We talked to women. We talked to them about what was happening to them. We talked about solutions. In regard to those solutions, they said that there has to be action.
The 2011 report was less than reassuring, and we haven't seen any of the action that you many of us have been talking about, so let's get down to action.
One of the things we're talking about is a national action plan that would provide an investment in front-line services and shelters on reserve. When we went out in 2010, women said, “We are abused. We're in danger, and there is nowhere to go.” They said there was a housing crisis on reserve and there was nowhere they could be safe. They had to travel hundreds of miles, with their kids, into a strange community in order to feel safe.
In terms of that and that plea for support, should there be a national action plan that does provide those front-line services and shelters on reserve, to make sure that women and girls experiencing the violence get immediate support at home with their community and with those who would make them feel safe and comfortable in place? Is that a possibility in terms of what this committee should be recommending?
6:50 p.m.
Executive Director, Women's Rights Division, Human Rights Watch Canada
I think that's a part of what this committee should be recommending.
I want to really refocus what this discussion should be about and what our research was about. Our research was not about the missing and murdered women. It was not about the high rates of domestic violence among aboriginal women and girls. We don't dispute that those are both enormously important problems. Our research looked at a very critical component of how one responds to both of those issues, and that is, first, the failure of the RCMP to provide protection and support to victims of domestic violence, victims of sexual violence, and victims of all forms of violence against women. It then also examined the smaller number of cases wherein the RCMP are in fact perpetrators of abuse.
In terms of the work we have done all over the world, responses to domestic violence require a comprehensive response. It requires all of the things that you and others have mentioned, but it also requires, critically, that the police play their role, that there is a level of trust between the police and the communities, and that victims know they can go to the police for support.
What this report clearly illustrates is that the women and girls we interviewed—who are victims, not families of victims; we interviewed victims of human rights violations—don't know, or believe, or trust that if they report cases to the RCMP, those cases will be investigated and will be taken seriously, and that they will get the protection they need from the RCMP.
6:50 p.m.
NDP
Irene Mathyssen NDP London—Fanshawe, ON
Thank you. In fact we heard some of that in the tour across the country in 2010.
You've called for a national inquiry. One of the other things we are concerned about is a public awareness and prevention campaign. If indeed there was this national inquiry, would it lend itself to creating that awareness, and hopefully the prevention campaign, so that we could indeed end violence against indigenous women and girls?
6:55 p.m.
Researcher, Women's Rights Division, Human Rights Watch Canada
I think a national awareness campaign in conjunction with an inquiry, or later with an action plan makes a lot sense. The one thing I would emphasize, as we've said before, is that it has to go beyond raising awareness. We do need to address the underlying factors that make indigenous women and girls more vulnerable to violence. We can't simply tell them not to hitchhike, or tell them not to put themselves in dangerous situations, when there really is no other recourse. Addressing the systemic inequality needs to be a piece of that.
6:55 p.m.
NDP
Irene Mathyssen NDP London—Fanshawe, ON
And give them the resources that they need to create their own solutions.
6:55 p.m.
NDP
Irene Mathyssen NDP London—Fanshawe, ON
One of the things that we also heard was that these women know what they need in order to end this violence and our obligation is to make sure that is provided to them.
6:55 p.m.
NDP
January 30th, 2014 / 6:55 p.m.
Conservative
Mark Strahl Conservative Chilliwack—Fraser Canyon, BC
Thank you very much, Madam Chair.
We heard from Shawn Atleo the national chief of the AFN, a fellow British Columbian. When he met with us, he said a couple for things. He said:I want to be very clear with all of you tonight. The families who have lost loved ones—mothers, sisters, daughters, and friends—are not asking for more study to delay moving forward on what we know needs to happen.
He went on to say:I believe we know what the solutions are.
I asked him, and I'll ask you because you alluded to it, in British Columbia millions of dollars were spent. There were very high hopes for the Missing Women Commission of Inquiry regarding missing women on the downtown eastside. From my perspective as someone who lives there, it completely fell apart. The law enforcement, victims' families, the legal community, no one was satisfied with it. It was demanded. It was set-up. It was proceeded with. They went through with it, and at the end of the day no one was happier as a result.
I know it's not quite the same, but given that experience in British Columbia, what do you think went wrong there, and why would a national experience be any better?
6:55 p.m.
Researcher, Women's Rights Division, Human Rights Watch Canada
I think where the Missing Women Commission of Inquiry in B.C. really fell apart was on the initial arrangements around how civil society would be able to participate. There were a number of groups that were granted standing, but then were unable to participate because there was no funding for legal representation. There was a very out of balance situation where there were many legal representatives for police officers involved, and there was one representative for indigenous interests, and one legal representative for the interests of the downtown eastside. In fact the representative for the indigenous interests ended up resigning, because she was having such difficulty putting the issues that were of importance to her constituency before the commission.
I would say the critical thing for a national commission of inquiry would be to learn from the B.C. example and to make sure that all stakeholders are not just invited to the table, but are made to have real access so that they can actually be there at the table.
6:55 p.m.
Conservative
Mark Strahl Conservative Chilliwack—Fraser Canyon, BC
Okay, thanks.
On page two of your testimony you mention that women calling the police for help following domestic violence or sexual assault may find themselves blamed for the abuse, shamed, etc. I'm assuming you've done some work in non-indigenous, non-aboriginal communities. How does that compare? I would assume there are other women, non-aboriginal, who have a similar experience. I don't know how you do that with colloquial stories, but do you have any evidence that it is significantly worse, or similar, based on other factors? Could you talk about that?
6:55 p.m.
Researcher, Women's Rights Division, Human Rights Watch Canada
Certainly.
Yes, absolutely, there is a lot of room for improvement in domestic violence in many of the contexts that we work in across the globe. In doing the interviews in British Columbia, certainly some of the service providers we talked to said, “Yes, in general, we're not satisfied with how the police respond to domestic violence”, but there's a—
7 p.m.
Researcher, Women's Rights Division, Human Rights Watch Canada
Yes, regardless. However, with aboriginal women and girls, there's an additional level of discrimination in how they are treated. The first question always asked is, “Were you drinking?” There are certain ways in which the treatment of indigenous victims was distinct from the otherwise still not perfect treatment of domestic violence victims.
7 p.m.
Conservative
Mark Strahl Conservative Chilliwack—Fraser Canyon, BC
This will be my final question. You talked about building trust. How do you think that a national inquiry, which would no doubt have plenty of examples—exactly what you've said—build trust between policing, and you mentioned the RCMP, and indigenous communities?
