Status of Women Committee on April 18th, 2013

[Commr Chris D. Lewis]

Oh, for sure. We had very few women then, and that number has increased more and more over the years, to what we have currently.

[Wai Young, Conservative, Vancouver South, BC]

One of the statistics—and I think I may have missed it in your presentation.... What percentage of your workforce is now women?

[Commr Chris D. Lewis]

The percentage of our workforce currently is 20-point-something per cent female across the board.

It's interesting to note that of the thousands of applicants we get each year, only 11% are female, but we've managed to get our numbers up to over 20% female employees. In fact, our last class of 110 recruits was over 50% female. So we're luring more women and making policing more attractive to females.

Interestingly, that chief superintendent I spoke of, the female in charge of the career development bureau, is my wife and a career police offer. She has seen it all—the good, the bad and the ugly—in her career, so she brings a very interesting perspective to her efforts in the career development bureau.

[Wai Young, Conservative, Vancouver South, BC]

Are your numbers higher now because you have an active engagement plan or strategy in place, or is it because you have put these measures in place to protect women in the workforce and people are hearing or know about that and are choosing policing as a career option?

[Commr Chris D. Lewis]

I think it's all of the above. We're certainly trying to make policing more attractive to all people in society, including people who are maybe fourth or fifth generation Canadians who have come from countries where policing's not attractive, and particularly to women. Women are approximately 51% of society. Why are our numbers so low in terms of the applicants? We have a variety of programs through which we get out in the community and engage potential female recruits for both civilian and uniformed roles, and our use of female recruiters who are actively out at job fairs and colleges and universities is having a very successful impact on the numbers that we're actually recruiting currently.

[Wai Young, Conservative, Vancouver South, BC]

Although the study is about sexual harassment—and I want to move on, because I have some other questions—how many of those women or what proportion do you think go into management? That's obviously one of the other issues about women in non-traditional roles.

[Commr Chris D. Lewis]

Many of our female members are seeking the supervisory roles, at the sergeant and staff sergeant level, the lower supervisory roles. Not many are seeking the commissioned officer or higher rank roles. We've just had this discussion in the last few months and we really want to implement a study to find out whether there are systemic barriers. My wife in her role doesn't think there are. She thinks she's actually been given opportunities herself that she may not have had as a male, because we're trying to get more females in specific roles. Whether or not that's a fair interpretation is up to her.

We need to do more; we're just not sure what. I think in our organization, getting the experience for the senior officer roles often requires moving around the province or taking jobs with lots of overtime and working night and day. That is difficult for some of our female members, particularly those who are mothers and who may or may not have husbands who are as understanding. That's a whole other element that's beyond my control. We need to do all we can to develop those females without having to move them around if they don't choose to.

[Wai Young, Conservative, Vancouver South, BC]

Right.

Thank you so much for that. Obviously, it'll be interesting in a couple of years to hear back from you as to how you're doing with that.

[Commr Chris D. Lewis]

I may be gone, but my wife will still be around.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[Wai Young, Conservative, Vancouver South, BC]

Well, 35 years of being on the force is very impressive, so we acknowledge and congratulate you on that.

I wanted to say that one of the things you clearly identified—and I don't now if these are steps or just points, but I made a quick note of them—is that you felt that it was important for the employer to have clarity about what the rules were, to educate your members about what the rules were, to have a fair and open complaint process, to have your employees supported throughout the complaint process, and to have workplace restoration after that fact.

[Commr Chris D. Lewis]

That's correct.

[Wai Young, Conservative, Vancouver South, BC]

Is that sort of a summary of what you said?

[Commr Chris D. Lewis]

It is for sure, yes.

[Wai Young, Conservative, Vancouver South, BC]

Over your 35 years, at what point in time was this implemented?

[Commr Chris D. Lewis]

I can't say there was a benchmark there that is clear to me. Initially, I know things happened that should not have happened. At times they were properly dealt with, at times they weren't reported, and at times they weren't effectively dealt with. Over the years it has reached the point at which everybody knows the processes now, everybody understands it won't be tolerated, and everybody sees action taken when it occurs.

Are there still some people who don't report it? That is possible, but I think that's changed greatly, too. I think our people are more apt to come forward with these issues now than they ever were, because they see the support and leadership throughout the organization and know it will be taken on and reprisals won't be tolerated.

[Wai Young, Conservative, Vancouver South, BC]

From many of our other witnesses, what we heard is that there's sort of an informal complaints process where somebody says, “You know, somebody made some gestures and it's the beginning of harassment, and I simply want it stopped.” Then people are talked to and that clarity we just spoke about, or education, happens, and then that's fine, it never comes to a complete process. But in your case, based on what you've said, everything is a complaint, or everything is documented or investigated.

[Commr Chris D. Lewis]

Everything will be documented, that's right. For example, if a member comes forward and says, “I only want him to not say that ever again, or ask me out again”, it's clearly stopped and the complainant doesn't want it to go any further than that, but it is still documented and tracked. It's within our statistics, so there's some record that it did occur.

[Wai Young, Conservative, Vancouver South, BC]

From some other witnesses we had before us, and some other employers, what we heard is that after a year or two, that information gets shredded and it disappears. What happens in your case?

[Commr Chris D. Lewis]

The statistics are never shredded and disappear. If Constable John Doe says something that is inappropriate, it's pointed out to him. If he does not do it, it stops then, the complainant is happy, that will not be on Constable John Doe's record past two years. But for two years it will be in there that the supervisor had to speak to John Doe and say, “Don't say that, it's very inappropriate for these reasons” and John Doe says, “Yes, I understand, and I won't do it again”. If that's the end of it, then it's off the individual's personnel record.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you very much.

Ms. Young, I'm afraid your time is up.

Ms. Hassainia.

[Sana Hassainia, NDP, Verchères—Les Patriotes, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Mr. Lewis, thank you for your testimony.

You talked about a committee established within the Ontario Provincial Police to promote respect in the workplace.

Can you give us more information about that committee and explain more specifically how it was used to reduce the number of sexual harassment cases?

[Commr Chris D. Lewis]

I apologize, but by the time I switched over here, I missed the very beginning of your question. I hate to ask you, but could you repeat it?

[Sana Hassainia, NDP, Verchères—Les Patriotes, QC]

I'll repeat it.

You spoke about a committee that was established in 2008. I would like to know how that committee contributes to reducing the number of cases of sexual harassment.

[Commr Chris D. Lewis]

That committee, really, is a group of people who look at best practices, trends that they've seen, the need for further education in the organization, and become a kind of centre of knowledge in terms of what has occurred in cases. There are almost precedents set, so if someone says x or y, here's really where it fits into the big scheme of things in terms of disciplinary action or potential resolutions.... Because the commander of the recruitment development bureau is also the chair of that committee, that's the narrow part of the hourglass for the OPP and it's all tracked through there, they really become the subject-matter experts in terms of giving advice to investigators and workplace harassment advisers or liaisons who are across the OPP. It becomes that centre of excellence, basically, to make sure we're all doing things the same way.