Evidence of meeting #11 for Status of Women in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was disorders.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Leora Pinhas  Department of Psychiatry, The Hospital for Sick Children
Gail McVey  Community Health Systems Resource Group, Ontario Community Outreach Program for Eating Disorders, The Hospital for Sick Children
Jarrah Hodge  Women, Action and the Media
Wendy Preskow  Founder and Chief Advocate, National Initiative for Eating Disorders

4:15 p.m.

Community Health Systems Resource Group, Ontario Community Outreach Program for Eating Disorders, The Hospital for Sick Children

Dr. Gail McVey

For me, the recommendation would be around opportunities for training and mentoring of psychiatry residents, and a succession plan. One of the things we're worried about is if the existing 12 psychiatrists who specialize in eating disorders retire or turn to another field, we're left with succession planning. There is a real and urgent need for training in this area.

4:15 p.m.

Department of Psychiatry, The Hospital for Sick Children

Dr. Leora Pinhas

I would like to add as a psychiatrist that it's impossible to graduate as a psychiatrist and not have treated someone with schizophrenia or a mood disorder. It's certainly possible to graduate today as a psychiatrist and never have treated an eating disorder. It's possible to be a child psychiatrist and never have treated an eating disorder.

We have to treat eating disorders and training like we treat the other major axis I diagnoses.

February 10th, 2014 / 4:15 p.m.

Liberal

Kirsty Duncan Liberal Etobicoke North, ON

Thank you, Dr. Pinhas.

I'm going to jump in here. You're giving us a very specific recommendation that you'd like to see in the report, and that's regarding training and succession planning.

Dr. McVey, could I ask you to table with the committee a very specific recommendation? In terms of training, what kind of training do you want? When? What's the funding that's required? Be as specific as you can, please.

Dr. McVey, if people need long-term treatment, how many centres are there in Canada, please?

4:15 p.m.

Community Health Systems Resource Group, Ontario Community Outreach Program for Eating Disorders, The Hospital for Sick Children

Dr. Gail McVey

I believe seven provinces offer some form of eating disorder treatment, but for the full scale of eating disorder treatment that's required in terms of the minimal level of service, which would include a combination of outpatient day treatment and in-patient residential care, Ontario is probably the lead province in this area. That has been an output of the investments made by the Ministry of Health and Long-Term Care in Ontario, primarily by a group of people who wanted to champion this as an issue. It started off with a training program that allowed us to meet with people from different disciplines and try to coax them and look at ways we could engage them in the treatment of eating disorders.

4:15 p.m.

Liberal

Kirsty Duncan Liberal Etobicoke North, ON

Only seven provinces offer help in eating disorders.

4:15 p.m.

Community Health Systems Resource Group, Ontario Community Outreach Program for Eating Disorders, The Hospital for Sick Children

Dr. Gail McVey

Not all of them offer it to its full capacity.

4:15 p.m.

Liberal

Kirsty Duncan Liberal Etobicoke North, ON

Okay, thank you.

How many long-term treatment centres are there in Canada?

4:15 p.m.

Community Health Systems Resource Group, Ontario Community Outreach Program for Eating Disorders, The Hospital for Sick Children

Dr. Gail McVey

That are funded, do you mean?

4:15 p.m.

Liberal

Kirsty Duncan Liberal Etobicoke North, ON

Yes, where people don't have to pay out of their pocket.

4:15 p.m.

Community Health Systems Resource Group, Ontario Community Outreach Program for Eating Disorders, The Hospital for Sick Children

Dr. Gail McVey

At this point it's zero.

4:15 p.m.

Department of Psychiatry, The Hospital for Sick Children

Dr. Leora Pinhas

Yes, there aren't any really. There are two beds in Homewood.

4:15 p.m.

Community Health Systems Resource Group, Ontario Community Outreach Program for Eating Disorders, The Hospital for Sick Children

Dr. Gail McVey

Yes. In terms of long-term residential care, we don't have any funded programs in Canada. Homewood does have one funded bed in a residential care program that has a wait list of three to seven years.

4:15 p.m.

Liberal

Kirsty Duncan Liberal Etobicoke North, ON

Are there no publicly funded long-term care centres in Canada?

4:15 p.m.

Community Health Systems Resource Group, Ontario Community Outreach Program for Eating Disorders, The Hospital for Sick Children

4:15 p.m.

Liberal

Kirsty Duncan Liberal Etobicoke North, ON

People who have eating disorders can't wait. You said they're waiting three to seven years. If they can't wait, they go out of country. Can you share what are the costs to families?

4:15 p.m.

Community Health Systems Resource Group, Ontario Community Outreach Program for Eating Disorders, The Hospital for Sick Children

Dr. Gail McVey

We haven't assessed across Canada the complete costs to families.

Those of us who work in the health care system have tried to look at the cost of running an in-patient bed in a province here in Canada versus one day of treatment in the U.S. and the comparison is quite striking. We're often paying more for out-of-country care. What we're not assured of is whether this is evidence-based treatment. Also, when clients return to us here in Canada, they often require follow-up care. They've already developed an alliance with the team in another country and they end up sitting on wait lists and they sometimes return. It's a bit of a revolving door. They might have multiple visits out of country as a result.

4:15 p.m.

Liberal

Kirsty Duncan Liberal Etobicoke North, ON

If I could pick up on that, I believe in Ontario they cover the cost of out-of-country treatment. You've raised the issue of follow-up care, which I hope my colleagues will pick up on in further questions. If you could make a very specific recommendation to this committee regarding long-term treatment, what would it be?

4:20 p.m.

NDP

The Chair NDP Hélène LeBlanc

Very briefly please.

4:20 p.m.

Department of Psychiatry, The Hospital for Sick Children

Dr. Leora Pinhas

I think what we would say is that we need long-term residential treatment programs across the country, not just in Ontario. We need them for adolescents and we need them for adults. They need to be treated in the same way as we treat long-term residential or sheltered living accommodations for other mental health disorders. There needs to be a variety of options. They also need to be funded.

Certainly the Government of Ontario has looked to repatriating some of those services, but they are the first who are in the process of doing that. We need it across the country.

4:20 p.m.

NDP

The Chair NDP Hélène LeBlanc

Thank you very much.

Madam O'Neill Gordon, you have five minutes.

4:20 p.m.

Conservative

Tilly O'Neill-Gordon Conservative Miramichi, NB

Thank you, Doctors, for your very informative presentation this afternoon.

The more we hear about eating disorders, the more we realize that more people out there need to hear this. The need for public awareness is very important. We certainly have quite a variety of audiences out there, such as schools, community groups, professional, medical, laity, as well as professional medical bodies.

How can public awareness campaigns effectively deliver this message to the many different audiences that are out there? They need to hear your message as well.

4:20 p.m.

Community Health Systems Resource Group, Ontario Community Outreach Program for Eating Disorders, The Hospital for Sick Children

Dr. Gail McVey

We have some solutions that perhaps don't necessarily require funding. I would really like to see eating disorders be considered under the tent of mental health and addiction in terms of the excellent work that's being done by the Mental Health Commission of Canada, Health Canada, the Public Health Agency of Canada and CIHR. What we're asking for is that when we talk about mental health and addiction, we're educating both professionals and the public that eating disorders are a mental health issue, a mental health disorder, and deserve to be considered in those public awareness campaigns.

4:20 p.m.

Conservative

Tilly O'Neill-Gordon Conservative Miramichi, NB

The more we hear, the more we know that this message has to get out. It is a disease. It's something that has to be dealt with the same as all other treatment.

We know as well that there would be many challenges in detecting an eating disorder. What are some of the challenges that medical professionals face in detecting and diagnosing eating disorders, particularly with girls and women?

4:20 p.m.

Department of Psychiatry, The Hospital for Sick Children

Dr. Leora Pinhas

I think one of the challenges is even considering that it might be an eating disorder. There is this misperception that it happens to white upper middle-class teenage girls, and it's actually an equal opportunity illness. It can happen to new immigrants. It can happen in all races and ethnicities. Often if you don't look like the typical case, people don't even think about it as a possibility. That's related to a lack of training and myths that revolve around eating disorders.

We also have to deal with the shame and stigma issue. It's still a very stigmatized illness. Patients often are ashamed. It's also an illness where, particularly in kids, they want to keep it a secret because they want to keep doing it. The patients in children and adolescent programs often come unwillingly as it is their parents who are concerned.

The first step I think is recognizing it's an equal opportunity illness and training people to look at what the signs are.

The other issue is knowing when you need to get more help. The idea that it's just a phase, or that we'll just watch it or, “Come here next week and I want to see that you've gained weight”, and doing that for months and months without actually providing adequate mental health treatment, because it exists, really just leads to chronicity. There's an interesting study that came out of the U.K. which shows that if you get a child into specialized mental health care quickly, you can really prevent the beginnings of an eating disorder from turning into something more chronic. The longer a child is sick, the more difficult the illness is to treat.

4:25 p.m.

Conservative

Tilly O'Neill-Gordon Conservative Miramichi, NB

Am I okay for time?