Evidence of meeting #40 for Status of Women in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was children.
A recording is available from Parliament.
9:50 a.m.
Executive Director, Ernestine's Women's Shelter
What I was talking about in particular was the PARS program, which is the partner assault response program that is done provincially, through the courts and so forth. I'm not aware of what the federal government implements when there is violence in the family or what is involved at a federal level for abusers when they get out of jail.
With the provincial pieces there is no evaluation of the PARS program, so we don't know whether it is successful. We don't know how much abuse is being done again, whether they are leaving, whether a woman is safe, or if there is follow-up, what that follow-up looks like for her when he's going through those programs.
It's that kind of stuff.
9:50 a.m.
Liberal
Kirsty Duncan Liberal Etobicoke North, ON
Thank you.
Ms. Martin, the survey of shelter workers identified the legal system as an impediment. Is that correct?
9:50 a.m.
Executive Director, Canadian Network of Women's Shelters and Transition Houses
Yes.
9:50 a.m.
Liberal
9:50 a.m.
Executive Director, Canadian Network of Women's Shelters and Transition Houses
I would defer to Sharlene and Lynn concerning the response. They are the ones who have to deal with the day-to-day pieces of it.
First of all, it's the delays in court systems.
9:50 a.m.
Executive Director, Ernestine's Women's Shelter
They mean having to keep going back. I've never gone anywhere but that somebody has said, “Oh, that person is not here? Well, come back in a couple of weeks.” And we'll come back and it will be a couple of weeks before a bench warrant is issued.
It's not being able to get things done in a timely manner that keeps her safe.
9:50 a.m.
Executive Director, Canadian Network of Women's Shelters and Transition Houses
And it wears you down just psychologically.
9:50 a.m.
Executive Director, Ernestine's Women's Shelter
Even the system itself.... There is a court right now in Toronto, modelled after one in Buffalo, in which the criminal and family judges—there are a couple of judges—are hearing both sides. It's a domestic violence court. They're hearing both sides, so that they get the criminal case part and they get the family case part and then hopefully are able to make a more informed decision around the safety of the family, the safety of the children.
It has been around for two or three years now, but there are some flaws that they're trying to address. It originally was not a mandatory court, so I'm not sure who would offer to volunteer to go and say, “Yes, I'll absolutely have a criminal judge and a family judge hear my story”. When they were separate, neither knew what the other was doing, and that was a problem.
Then, when you try to speak with judges around understanding or educating around family violence, they have absolutely said that they are not allowed to be educated on such matters. It's kind of odd; I don't understand that process.
9:50 a.m.
NDP
The Chair NDP Hélène LeBlanc
Thank you.
Ms. Tygesen, you were mentioning a practice.
This is something that you have heard is done in the United States, I understand.
9:50 a.m.
NDP
The Chair NDP Hélène LeBlanc
If you have any more information on it, I think it might be something to be considered. Would you feel that it might be a promising practice to resolve some of the lengthy delay?
9:50 a.m.
NDP
The Chair NDP Hélène LeBlanc
I don't know whether it's applicable in Canada—that is not what I'm saying—but If you could send to the clerk any references you have to it, I think this would be interesting to look at as maybe a promising practice.
Ms. Young, you have the floor for five minutes.
December 4th, 2014 / 9:55 a.m.
Conservative
Wai Young Conservative Vancouver South, BC
Thank you very much.
I want to thank you so very much for coming today. Some 30 years ago I worked in the downtown eastside as a native youth and family counsellor. It was when one of my youth got raped that I decided to become a foster parent. I took her home, and subsequently I fostered seven different children in my home. I just give this to you as context for where I'm coming from.
I only have five minutes, as you've heard. I would love to spend hours and hours with you instead. But very specifically, we've been touching a little bit on the legal system, which is huge because of its complexities and difficulties. Certainly I've done it on the children side, getting them out of the home and all of that sort of thing.
Over the past 30 years, would you say that has changed or become better? Are there any best practices? Can you make some recommendations regarding the legal system while you're here? After all, we are in Ottawa, and this is where we can maybe effect some change in the future.
I'll start with you, Sharlene, because of your 30 years of experience as well; that's something that we can perhaps share later on.
I will give you this example. Years ago we used to take the women and children out of the home. Maybe about 10 or 15 years ago there was a change to that, where we took the offender out of the home, leaving the women and children in the home. Has that effected a change? Is that a best practice? Should we be following up on that, and doing a study on that, to look at how that has been better?
I mean, the answer perhaps is not to build more shelters. The answer perhaps is to keep women safe in their homes with their children, if you know what I mean.
Can you give a response to that?
9:55 a.m.
Executive Director, Ernestine's Women's Shelter
Yes. One of the things that's happening now is that they're just charging them both. There's definitely more dual charging happening. Often it's because she's defending herself, right? But it becomes a he-said-she-said issue, a situation that happens quite a bit now.
It doesn't feel like it's gotten any better. From my experience, it doesn't feel like it's gotten better. I spoke with some officers who teach at the college, and when I asked them how much time officers spend getting training on domestic violence, they said three days. Wow; that was very eye-opening for me.
I do think we also have a responsibility as a shelter to connect with our police divisions, our divisions within our shelter community, to better that partnership and that relationship. That's certainly some of what we do, but there are also officers who don't even know where we are.
9:55 a.m.
Conservative
Wai Young Conservative Vancouver South, BC
Perhaps you could reflect on and send us—just because I'm lacking in time here—any best practices in terms of noticeable changes in the legal system, such as any noticeable changes in how things are happening in the courts.
Lynn, I'll ask you to answer that question as well. Have you noticed any changes in the last few years, or any best practices that we should perhaps follow up on or take a look at in the legal system to help all of this?
9:55 a.m.
Executive Director, Armagh House
I would like to make one suggestion, or one recommendation, and that is to hold perpetrators more accountable when there is hard evidence against them about a situation.
I'll give you an example. One woman who had come to us had been incested by her father. Because of a delay in the criminal court proceeding, he is out. It has taken two years for a trial, even though there is hard evidence to prove that he will be guilty. Allowing him that option to keep going to court, saying he's not guilty—that's not holding men accountable, or any perpetrators, in fact, for their actions.
9:55 a.m.
Conservative
Wai Young Conservative Vancouver South, BC
Right.
May I ask you, Lise, under the Canadian Network of Women's Shelters and Transition Houses, do you track any of this stuff? As a national organization, what kind of policy work do you do in this area?
9:55 a.m.
Executive Director, Canadian Network of Women's Shelters and Transition Houses
It's definitely something that we need to do and we'd like to do. The reality is that the network is young. I was basically on my own until October, when I was joined by a part-time colleague. There are limits to what we can do.
One thing that I did want to mention as, I feel, a potential around the national action plan is the domestic violence court that Sharlene referred to. There had been one in St. John's, Newfoundland. That was operational for three years, and then the Newfoundland government cancelled it. Within the light of this committee, I think it's really good to collect different promising practices, but I think that whole notion of promising practices needs to be looked at as well. Yes, okay, we have all these different practices, but how do they continue? As I said, how do we scale them up to really benefit from their full potential? If you could also touch on that in the report, I think it would be really useful.
10 a.m.
NDP
10 a.m.
NDP
Djaouida Sellah NDP Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC
Thank you, Madam Chair.
Ladies, thank you for being here and testifying before us in order to direct the government's attention to violence against women. I feel that you are the leaders of social change and leaders in the fight against violence against women.
I had a lot of questions to ask, but, after hearing Ms. Tygesen speak about the other side of the GPS system coin, and how it can be used to locate women who are the victims of violence and are supposed to be in a safe and undisclosed location, I would like her to tell us more about it.
What could the federal government do to eventually protect these women from these modern technologies?
10 a.m.
Executive Director, Ernestine's Women's Shelter
Again, I guess it's where they have the power to look at legislation that is about communication, that is about policies that govern.... Whoever is developing these technologies, if the government is overseeing it, like they do with Rogers about what goes on your television, it's those kinds of things.
I'm not really sure which levels of government have control in looking over those kinds of things. I mean, I know there's Internet lobbying, child porn, other issues of violence against women and children that are technology warranted. I'm not sure who's got that authority. If it's federal or if it's provincial or if it's municipal, get in the sandbox together and play nice.