Transport Committee on May 10th, 2012

[Isabelle Morin, NDP, Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Lachine, QC]

Thank you very much.

You said that Russia, the United Kingdom and the United States were interested in this. I'm wondering about the hangars because the groups we had here on Tuesday also told us that that was a limitation and a challenge. But, you're telling us that the hangar would have to be 200 metres long, 80 metres wide and 50 metres tall. You are asking us for help with that.

But there was a hangar in Berlin, Germany, that was much larger: it was 360 metres long, 210 metres wide and 107 metres tall. But it went bankrupt less than 10 years ago. What didn't work there? Why would it work in Canada? Is every country suddenly going to come and invest? Do you think it would potentially create jobs, while it went bankrupt in another country less than 10 years ago?

[Garry Venman]

That didn't work because there was no commercial industry behind it. Essentially, someone jumped the gun and invested a lot of money in facilities prior to proving a commercial market existed. This is why we would like to see a technology demonstration, to prove the technology works, to prove to industry that we can provide them with the operational and cost performance that will be required to ensure that the venture is economically viable prior to investing in this infrastructure. That's what we would like to do. That's what we're advocating. That's how you prevent that kind of thing from happening again.

[Isabelle Morin, NDP, Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Lachine, QC]

Do you have any studies proving that this market exists? Do you have any studies establishing that there is a demand for a certain number of airships and that certain countries are going to use them? Can you tell me if other countries are currently using airships to transport goods?

[Garry Venman]

Most airships are currently used for televising football games, taking people on tours around the Grand Canyon, that type of stuff. As far as I know, there are no commercial heavy-lift airships, whether it's an airship or a hybrid solution like this, operating anywhere in the world.

[Didier Toussaint]

To answer the question about demand, Mr. Venman spoke earlier about a number of studies that we have done recently. They indicate that there was a global demand, up to 1,400 vehicles. That's perhaps a little optimistic. We have also seen other studies, but there is certainly a demand from mining and exploration companies and from a number of countries. We estimate that it will involve 200 to 300 vehicles, at least, and that the number could rise upwards to 1,400. So there is a demand, which has been identified in a number of studies we've looked at recently.

[Isabelle Morin, NDP, Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Lachine, QC]

You told us that the United Kingdom might be interested in having the hangar, but if there is so much demand, why is no other country jumping at the opportunity? If it's an extraordinary demand, if it's so miraculous and if it will create jobs everywhere, why don't any other countries want to invest? Why do you need to lobby to tell us that we should invest in this project?

[Didier Toussaint]

Discovery Air Innovations is a Canadian company. As we indicated earlier, we have already entered into a partnership with this company in England. Several companies are clearly interested, but it's still a new technology and we want to commercialize it.

Discovery Air Innovations has an agreement with the company in England. We need to choose where we are going to build this global centre of excellence. We are a Canadian company, and there is already a market that seems very interested in Canada. A little earlier, we gave you some examples, such as the Plan Nord. Our operation in the north is already a good link for moving from a demonstration phase to a commercialization phase.

We are world leaders in this technology. We think it is a good fit for Canada.

[Isabelle Morin, NDP, Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Lachine, QC]

I'll come back to what our chair said earlier. Do you think the airships could possibly have a military use?

[Didier Toussaint]

We have developed a military use in the past few years. In that respect, the United States government has invested close to $1 billion. They do have military applications.

We decided to focus on the commercial side, even though there are military applications. Perhaps the United States will prove the viability of these military applications over the years. Our intention is to prove that the commercial applications are.

However, with respect to the military side of things, the technology may be the same, but the vehicle is different. It is much smaller. For it to be commercially effective, the vehicle must be able to transport a lot of merchandise to reach remote locations that don't have the infrastructure necessary to bring in goods or transport them elsewhere.

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

Merci.

Mr. Toet.

[Lawrence Toet, Conservative, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to start with Mr. Tauvette from WestJet. You talked about a flight from Calgary to Toronto as an example. How much fuel do you consume in that flight?

[Geoffrey Tauvette]

Offhand, it's maybe 6,000 or 7,000 litres, potentially.

[Lawrence Toet, Conservative, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

Have you done any work on the biofuel aspect of it? What would you require as far as biofuel resource and biofuel stock are concerned to create that much fuel?

[Geoffrey Tauvette]

No, that would be part of what's being discussed now.

[Lawrence Toet, Conservative, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

Do you have any idea at all?

[Geoffrey Tauvette]

How much crop is required to produce x litres of fuel? I have an idea. I don't have the figure with me. We can get back to you, if that's required.

[Lawrence Toet, Conservative, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

Okay. At the beginning of your presentation you talked about your whole fleet in the whole area that you fly in, etc. Have you had an opportunity to quantify what percentage of your fuel could be from biofuel for the WestJet fleet, based on the land mass area that's available to create stock for it.

[Geoffrey Tauvette]

That is a difficult question, especially when it comes from bioseeds. As I said, I think we have an idea; I just don't have the figures here today.

[Lawrence Toet, Conservative, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

Do you have any of idea at all? Would it be 5% or 75%?

[Geoffrey Tauvette]

Well, reasonable expectations are that I think aviation biofuels will fulfill about 5% of our total requirements.

If you can grow it bigger, we would take more, obviously.

[Lawrence Toet, Conservative, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

Okay, thank you.

I had a few questions also for our guests from Hybrid Air Vehicles. It's very interesting. I think it's a fantastic technology that you're looking at. I do have some questions, though.

One of the things, Mr. Venman, you had talked about building was a vehicle for proof of concept. My impression is that you were building that before you were going to build any infrastructure. So where are you going to build this particular proof of concept vehicle?

[Garry Venman]

There are some facilities in the States. We could do the assembly, at least the layout and the final assembly of the demonstrator.

[Lawrence Toet, Conservative, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

So you've worked through negotiation on that. Is that a real possibility? Or is it just that these facilities exist and you had hoped you might be able to use them?

[Garry Venman]

No, we haven't negotiated access to those facilities. Ultimately, that would be Hybrid Air Vehicles' problem to solve.

[Lawrence Toet, Conservative, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

Okay.