Evidence of meeting #43 for Transport, Infrastructure and Communities in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was industry.
A recording is available from Parliament.
10:15 a.m.
Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, National Steel Car Limited
To be straightforward, there's nobody who really wants to take this on. There's no champion of this, if that's your question.
10:15 a.m.
Liberal
Denis Coderre Liberal Bourassa, QC
Okay.
One thing that struck me when you spoke about the bears is that if the railcars are obsolete and there's a situation vis-à-vis their safety, I think we have to take a look at that.
Again, you want a made-in-Canada solution. I guess if we're promoting renewal, it's going to be an open bid.
I have two questions. What is the safety status of that? And secondly, if we're going to a bid and the government says, “Okay, we should renew,” you won't be the only one who can bid on that. What is the competition?
10:20 a.m.
Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, National Steel Car Limited
The competition is all American companies.
10:20 a.m.
Liberal
Denis Coderre Liberal Bourassa, QC
And what's the safety status of those obsolete cars? Is there any problem right now?
10:20 a.m.
Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, National Steel Car Limited
With safety?
10:20 a.m.
Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, National Steel Car Limited
You're talking about bear safety.
10:20 a.m.
Liberal
Denis Coderre Liberal Bourassa, QC
I'm talking about safety in general, not bear safety. If there is a situation that provokes a derailment, it can become an issue.
I'm just trying to understand this. I have nothing against renewal if it's good for sustainability, and then we can talk about the role of government in this and who are the players in all of this, but I think we first need a portrait of the situation right now.
If they are obsolete because they leak, that might have an impact on safety. I just want to know. If there's no problem vis-à-vis their safety, then there is no problem.
I like bears, but that's not my question.
10:20 a.m.
Peter Leigh Scott Regional Vice-President, Marketing and Sales, National Steel Car Limited
The safety record would be recorded—
10:20 a.m.
Voices
Oh, oh!
10:20 a.m.
Regional Vice-President, Marketing and Sales, National Steel Car Limited
The railroads have the safety record of the cars; we have no stats with respect to the safety of the cars. We are simply stating that the cars are 40 years old. It's easy to imagine the state of repair of the cars, which is not as efficient as it is for a new car, including the gates that hold the grain in. That was a reference to the bears.
10:20 a.m.
Liberal
Denis Coderre Liberal Bourassa, QC
Let's talk about standards. When we compare what used to be done and what is done today, we see that things are much more efficient.
How does that work? I am a bit of a neophyte in this regard. Do you have to respect standards? Would that have an effect on travel? In fact, if there are more cars, more efficiency, would that impact on fuel use? Have you done studies on things like that?
10:20 a.m.
Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, National Steel Car Limited
Based on the information that we've presented today, we're moving far more grain with far fewer cars. When you compare what we're proposing versus the existing fleet, we're moving more grain with fewer cars and fewer train starts. What we are proposing should essentially translate into a lower transportation cost, which should allow for a trickle-down effect and for the farmer to receive more money for his grain because the transportation part is compressed.
10:20 a.m.
Liberal
Denis Coderre Liberal Bourassa, QC
If I understand, you are calling on the Standing Committee on Transport, Infrastructure and Communities to recommend, as was done at agriculture, that there be a complete renewal of the grain car fleet. Is that correct?
10:20 a.m.
Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, National Steel Car Limited
That's correct.
10:20 a.m.
Regional Vice-President, Marketing and Sales, National Steel Car Limited
I'll expand a little on what Mr. Aziz said: it's not just for the farmers and the railroads. The capacity of the car benefits everyone through the whole logistics chain.
10:20 a.m.
Liberal
Denis Coderre Liberal Bourassa, QC
I once sat on that side of the table myself. I understand what happens when ministers or junior ministers meet with you.
Essentially, you are here with a business proposition. You are asking politicians to commit, you say the government should take the initiative of renewing the Canadian grain car fleet. Is that the government's role? Do you want incentives? Do you want us to place an order? I am trying to understand.
Otherwise, it is simply a self-serving presentation. It may be of value but is this really the place to be making that kind of recommendation?
I am all for helping farmers be more efficient and for having an overall impact, including on the environment. Basically, you are asking the government to come up with a program. Is that really the role of government?
If it is done for the entire country, it will not just be your company. It will be all companies, and then there are free trade agreements to consider. I am simply trying to understand so that, in the context of our program on technological alternatives, we need to understand how to include this recommendation. It seems as though it is a bit of a one-off presentation, compared to the big picture. I just want to understand.
10:25 a.m.
Conservative
10:25 a.m.
Liberal
Denis Coderre Liberal Bourassa, QC
I was talking about whether it's the role of this committee. I have no problem putting up some incentives if there is some valid point for the renewal, but is it the role of the government right now to make that kind of program? It's a valid presentation, but I was wondering whether it's accurate within alternative technology.
10:25 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Merv Tweed
I would suggest that the recommendation that came from agriculture on this will be the driving factor as to whether the government decides to proceed.
10:25 a.m.
Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, National Steel Car Limited
Could I put in a quick point?
The government is heavily invested in this right now. This Canada fleet we put up in the presentation is owned by the government. It's provided to the railroads free to transport grain for Canadian farmers. This has gone on for quite a while. The government has already invested in this sector, and because of that investment, the railroads over a period of time have not had to invest in this equipment.
Now you're asking the railroads to fix this problem because the government hasn't kept up. Number one, it's our view that it's too big a problem for the railroads to fix immediately. They won't have the capital to invest in this. Number two, they'll take an awfully long time to get this done, and number three, with all the changes that are happening in agriculture in western Canada and right across the country, we don't have the time to waste, because we're going to blow our opportunity in international markets. I don't think any Canadian wants to see that happen.
10:25 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Merv Tweed
Just before I recognize Mr. Poilievre, the railcars that you're proposing...obviously that's an issue in northern Manitoba. Many years ago, the government invested in light railcars, which, in my understanding, didn't meet the need. Would this work in that type of condition? I know the landscape is far different from a lot of places.
10:25 a.m.
Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, National Steel Car Limited
You're talking for the port of Churchill, Mr. Chairman?
Leigh, do you want to...?