Transport Committee on March 25th, 2014

[Denis Lebel, Conservative, Roberval—Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Absolutely not. The gas tax fund is available April 1. That's more than $2 billion a year. We can't answer how much money will be invested in national infrastructure—

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

We're talking about the new building Canada plan.

[Denis Lebel, Conservative, Roberval—Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

That's what I'm doing.

The main part of that is GST rebate and the renewal of the gas tax fund, and that will be available April 1 for municipalities all across the country.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

Let's turn to the second issue. I want to talk to you about the bridge.

Your government was warned in 2011 in a secret briefing note that this 51-year-old bridge, the busiest span in the country, an essential component of North American trade, was in “poor condition” and required “comprehensive strengthening and other repairs to avoid jeopardizing public safety”.

In the recent budget your government proposed to spend only $165 million over two years for a replacement bridge.

You've been given estimates here. We've been given estimates of between $3 billion and $5 billion to replace this bridge. Now we're told there's a consortium interested in the public-private partnership. It's going to be asked to apply in the spring. The winning bid is going to be announced only in 2015. Ministerial briefing notes for you show the government has known about these issues since well, well, well before 2011, in fact, since 2006. When you achieved government, you said, “We'll roll on the bridge in 2018.”

Why has the government not acted sooner? Minister, isn't this again a case where you're delaying this bridge construction in order to meet your almighty deficit elimination deadline?

[Denis Lebel, Conservative, Roberval—Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Absolutely not. We will never jeopardize the security of the population. That's completely wrong, completely wrong.

The bridge is safe because JCCBI is doing the job. We have invested over $380 million to keep that bridge safe. The Buckland & Taylor report said that we have to put in more money. That's what we will continue to do. They were supposed to deliver the bridge in 2021. We have changed the schedule to have it sooner because of the Buckland & Taylor report. Probably the former government did not look at this bridge as seriously as we're doing. We're delivering the job and we'll make it on time and on budget.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

Minister, it gets very thin after a while. You've been in power for eight years. I remember one of your candidates, a senator. Do you remember him, the CFL player? He was appointed to the Senate so he could run a campaign. Then he quit the day the campaign was kicked off. He ran as your candidate in Montreal. He went to the bridge, made an announcement. Do you remember that? What has been happening here? You've been playing politics with this bridge now for eight years.

I want to turn to something else you've said. You've said over and over again, “no toll, no bridge; no toll system, no bridge”. The problem is Canadians, Montrealers, and Quebeckers are looking for any analysis you might have actually conducted, if you've done any, to explain to them what the effects of that will be.

Let me ask you this. If you put a toll on this bridge, what will the effects be on other bridges in the Montreal area? What will the effects be on public transit? What will the effects be on roadways? If you have that analysis, could you table it here today?

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

Mr. McGuinty, your time is up.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

I'll let the minister answer the question.

[Denis Lebel, Conservative, Roberval—Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

You are wrong because if we had played politics with this issue, probably we would have had to announce it during the campaign in 2011. I announced it on October 5, 2011. That's totally wrong.

Already in the Montreal region there is a toll on Highway 25 and Highway 30. The population knows how it goes. The impact is certain: if we don't build the new bridge, there will be a huge impact on the traffic in the Montreal region. We're delivering a bridge on time. We will continue to work very hard. The population in Montreal knows how important an issue it is, and we're taking that very seriously.

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

Okay, thank you.

Mr. Braid, you have seven minutes.

[Peter Braid, Conservative, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

Thank you, Minister and officials, for being here this morning.

I want to start from an infrastructure perspective and talk about the new building Canada plan. There are a number of important pillars under the plan: the community infrastructure fund, which includes the gas tax fund, and the new building Canada fund, which includes a provincial and territorial component and a national component.

I want to start with the gas tax fund. It's such an important pillar of the overall plan.

Minister, could you highlight the enhancements that have been made specifically to the gas tax fund and the increased flexibility that is available for municipalities under that particular component?

[Denis Lebel, Conservative, Roberval—Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Since we have been in government, we have taken this issue of the gas tax fund very seriously. We have made it permanent. We have doubled it. Now we are indexing it, and now it's permanent in a bill, in law. That's very, very important.

Municipalities were asking us for more flexibility on that gas tax fund. Now I can tell you that the categories available under the gas tax fund include public transit, drinking water, waste water, solid waste, green energy, local roads—including bridges on local roads—short-line rail, short-sea shipping, regional and local airports, highways, connectivity and broadband, brownfield redevelopment, disaster mitigation, tourism, sport—for sure non-professional sport—recreation, culture, and capacity building. There are a lot of new categories accepted under the building Canada plan, and municipalities are happy with that. For sure we will have to continue to support them on this program, but that's a very effective program, very well known now.

What is very important is predictability. When you're on a city council and you have in front of you a 10-year plan, you can plan how much money you will receive from the Government of Canada through the gas tax fund. It's very important to have predictability, and now they have it for 10 years. With the $6 billion of the former plan, that's $38 billion available for cities through this new building Canada plan. I know they're very happy about that for sure. If you ask mayors if they want more money, they will say yes, but they're already receiving 71% of the building Canada plan. As I've said before, we have to work with our partners in municipalities, provinces, and territories, and we will continue to do so.

[Peter Braid, Conservative, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

Let's talk about the funding that's available under the new building Canada plan beginning in the 2014-15 fiscal year, because for some reason there seems to be a lot of confusion on the other side of the table. Under the gas tax fund alone, as I understand it, it represents $2 billion for municipalities over the coming year, and that of course is available to them in stable, predictable funding this year and for the next nine years after that.

[Denis Lebel, Conservative, Roberval—Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Absolutely. You are totally right. That's why when we want to split the building Canada plan, we have to take each one of the components. The money for the gas tax fund will be available from April 1. Municipalities know that. It will be indexed through the years. There will be $32 billion through the 10 years through this, more than the $6 billion of the actual building Canada plan, which flows next summer. In 2014 there will be a lot of construction everywhere in the country because of the former program and the new program.

[Peter Braid, Conservative, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

Let me pick up on that last point, Minister. Under the former program, in addition to the $2 billion that's available in 2014-15 under the gas tax fund, there is a portion of the original building Canada plan that gets carried over, that wasn't fully spent, and that represents another significant amount of money that is available to municipalities and provinces and territories this coming year. Is that correct?

[Denis Lebel, Conservative, Roberval—Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Absolutely. There is still $6 billion from the former program, which will continue to flow this year and in the next years, too, because, as you know, we're paying our partners when the job is done and they have sent us their bills. That's the way it works. You're right: there is still $6 billion that will continue to flow in the former program.

[Peter Braid, Conservative, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

Okay.

Finally, as I understand it, there is even more, because under the provincial-territorial infrastructure component, which begins this new fiscal year in 2014, all the provinces and the territories will know exactly what their funding envelope will be. Is that correct?

[Denis Lebel, Conservative, Roberval—Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

That's right too. All municipalities can apply for a project through this program. That's why it's impossible for me to tell you today how much money will go to municipalities. They will have to apply in a provincial-territorial program. After that, the province will decide what are their priorities. After that, some years from now, we will be able to say, “This amount of money has been invested through municipalities.” We can do that through the provincial-territorial program.

[Peter Braid, Conservative, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

It's only logical that we won't know exactly the amount of money that will be spent under the provincial and territorial infrastructure component until applications are made and receipts are received.

[Denis Lebel, Conservative, Roberval—Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

It works like that. Everybody knows, then, that there would be at least $2 billion available through the gas tax fund, and we will expend the money when we have done the projects and have received the bills from the provinces and territories. That's the way it works.

[Peter Braid, Conservative, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

Minister, thank you for clarifying that.

In addition, could you also explain how the investments that our government has made for infrastructure since we became government in 2006 compare—the original plan and the new plan—to those of the previous Liberal government?

[Denis Lebel, Conservative, Roberval—Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

I was a mayor between 2000 and 2007.

What we had in 2006-07 was preliminary; it wasn't permanent, so that changes everything.

Mayors are very glad to have some degree of predictability, a plan they can rely on. All the money from the gas excise tax, for instance, goes to municipalities, enabling them to make their own choices. Those choices vary depending on the region as well as local priorities. In some parts of the country, municipalities decided to invest all that money in public transit, and that's their prerogative.

There is no longer any doubt that, now, the infrastructure plan gives municipalities access to funding over a 10-year period. That wasn't the case under the previous government.

[Peter Braid, Conservative, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

Last, Minister, how would you compare the original building Canada fund of 2007 to the new building Canada plan?

[Denis Lebel, Conservative, Roberval—Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

There is more money. We have changed some categories. We have the experience of the former plan.

The money will continue to flow. Municipalities know how it works, too, and they are prepared to invest in that. I think we will have better results.