Veterans Affairs Committee on May 15th, 2012

[Raymond Lalonde]

As far as the OSI clinics are concerned, one of the beauties of having a partnership with provincial institutions is the connections the staff of the clinics have with the provincial health systems and the community services. So I would say one of the mandates of the OSI clinics is what we call outreach—outreach for two purposes. The first one is to get the health provider community, the social support services community, to know about OSI, OSI clinics, and the services that are offered. Also, it's a way for the OSI clinics to build relationships with the community providers so they can work in partnership. Given the fact that most of our veterans in our OSI clinics have general practitioners, how can we support them in their treatment approach? How can we provide training or education to the community providers? The clinics offer sessions regularly at different venues to family members, clinicians, and hospitals. We do have a lot of efforts from the OSI clinics to reach them.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Greg Kerr]

You are just at the very end of your time. Do you want a further response?

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

I believe my colleague would like to pose a quick question.

[The Chair, Conservative, Greg Kerr]

It will have to be very brief. We're at the time right now.

[Manon Perreault, NDP, Montcalm, QC]

Thank you for being here and answering our questions.

I just want to be sure I understood you correctly. Ms. Sinnott, you said earlier that in 85% of cases, processing time for an initial application is about two weeks. For the other 15% of cases, how much time can processing take?

[Maureen Sinnott]

That's a very good question. It depends on the complexity of the requirement or the case. I can't speak to individual cases, but 85% of our rehab requests are processed within two weeks. With the remaining 15%, it could take a day longer or it could take a couple of weeks longer. It depends on how complex it is or whether or not we can obtain all the required information. Other than that, I can try to get back to you with an average timeframe, if that's okay.

[The Chair, Conservative, Greg Kerr]

Thank you very much. I said one question.

We have to go to Mr. Storseth for a very fulsome five-minute round.

[Brian Storseth, Conservative, Westlock—St. Paul, AB]

Thank you very much, our valued chair.

I'd like to thank the witnesses for coming today. I have a quick question. You talk about electronic files and forms, and putting medical files electronically. You mention how it helps protect privacy. How easy is it for our veterans to access their medical files after they have left the forces?

[Maureen Sinnott]

That's a question that to a certain extent one may have to address to National Defence, because a lot of their file may still be within National Defence.

However, when they make a request for a disability pension or an application to us, we're expecting it because we've gone to digitization of the files with Library and Archives Canada for the archive files and to National Defence. We should be able to receive the information quickly electronically. One of the best parts is we are able to move that information around the department electronically. So if there are a number of calls for that information in different locations, we won't be sending a paper file to point A, point B, and then point C; we'll be able to send the information to the places that require it immediately.

If the file has been requested by the department, then it's already within the department. If it's a brand-new request, the department has to go to National Defence or Library and Archives Canada, call for the information, and digitize it.

[Brian Storseth, Conservative, Westlock—St. Paul, AB]

That's a fulsome answer, but the question was, how easy is it for the former serving member to access his file or get his electronic file? Sometimes they require it themselves when they're trying to move forward with different issues.

[Derek Sullivan]

I'm afraid I'm not completely familiar with how a veteran would obtain his own medical file. If it has been transferred from National Defence to Library and Archives Canada, my belief is he would have to obtain the records from Library and Archives Canada if they're in possession of them, with the appropriate controls and procedures they have in place.

[Brian Storseth, Conservative, Westlock—St. Paul, AB]

I know it's a question at committee, so perhaps you could look into it and provide the committee with what it would take and how long it would take.

[Derek Sullivan]

Certainly.

[Brian Storseth, Conservative, Westlock—St. Paul, AB]

You talked about the importance of local and provincial services and knowledge of those services. You talked about how it's an opportunity for us. I think one of the examples is when it comes to rural communities and rural settings. You also mentioned case managers looking at visiting individual veterans' homes. Is this a practice that is regularly done, or it is not the norm?

My experience, coming from a military community, is that particularly our older veterans, who aren't necessarily on Facebook and know all the rest of computer technology, often prefer to come in to sit down and meet with their Veterans Affairs Canada representatives. They often feel more comfortable doing that if the setting is on the base, or somewhere of that nature.

How often is that done, and how important is the actual presence of the office in some of these communities?

[Maureen Sinnott]

I'd have to say that case managers going to visit veterans happens on a regular basis. If you were to ask me if it was 75% or 85% of their time, I'd have to come back and respond at another time.

All of our case managers are not sitting in offices waiting for veterans to come to them. They go out by appointment to meet with veterans. We certainly have intake case managers who are available to meet with our veterans in offices to assess their needs, accept applications, counsel them, or have discussions on what we can provide.

[Brian Storseth, Conservative, Westlock—St. Paul, AB]

Certainly getting more people, boots on the ground, into the communities has been very important. I know in Cold Lake, my community, it's been very well received. It allows more case managers to actually get out and do things when you have more staff in these rural and remote communities. The OSI clinics have also been very well received.

I have one complaint on the OSI clinics. It's not necessarily a criticism; it's just a vision moving forward. We need to make sure there are more mental health professionals in some of these rural communities. It can be an extremely draining process for a member and their family to drive three to four hours to attend a mental health session. They almost have to stay overnight.

If those services were accessible in some of these rural communities, they would be very well received. The mental health professionals we have in those rural communities are certainly overworked as it is.

On my last question, for a lot of my older veterans the paperwork has been very confusing over the years. What work has the department done to help streamline some of this—payments through the VIP program and mileage—to make it less complex and a little more direct and to the point?

[Maureen Sinnott]

We've streamlined the forms and applications that veterans need to fill out. We've tried to simplify the number of times an individual has to come back to us for authorization for a similar service—a second year or a third year. We no longer require people to sign renewal forms and send them in all the time.

We're still working on it. It's a work in progress, and there is more that can be done. We are working toward making our language simpler in our communications to veterans, so it's not as difficult to understand what we're saying and what forms have to be filled out.

[Brian Storseth, Conservative, Westlock—St. Paul, AB]

Excellent.

[The Chair, Conservative, Greg Kerr]

Thank you very much.

That is our time for this panel today. I want to thank you all very much for being here. I think you've added a lot to our study.

We'll suspend for a couple of minutes and change players.

[The Chair, Conservative, Greg Kerr]

Okay, folks, we're back in business. We are involved in the study of transformation initiatives at Veterans Affairs Canada.

I want to welcome our distinguished guests today. I know you're well aware of what we're up to here, so I don't have to reintroduce it.

I understand that Mr. Jenkins will make the presentation on behalf of his group. Then we'll go to Mr. O'Brien, and then we'll go to the committee for questions.

Welcome. You're up.

[Gord Jenkins, President, NATO Veterans Organization of Canada]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. It's good to be back again.

My name is Gordon Jenkins. I am the president of the NATO Veterans of Canada. I am here with my colleagues. Jarrott Holtzhauer is our VP of plans and policies. Thurston Kaulbach—or Tud, as they call him in the valley—is our vice-president of advocacy.

The NATO Veterans Organization of Canada is an all-veterans organization. We have no civilians in our organization. It is also composed primarily of post-Korean to present-day veterans and serving members—the so-called modern-day veterans, as distinct from the World War II and Korean veterans, the traditional veterans.

Our web page has our purpose on it. If you're interested, it's at www.natoveterans.org. It is bilingual. Our purpose is clearly stated on page 1, the splash page, and it is, “We will continue pressing Veterans Affairs to provide NATO veterans the same benefits as WWII and Korea Vets”.

The first question we must ask is, what is meant by “transformation”? The definition is “a marked change, as in appearance or character, usually for the better”. VAC uses this definition. We accept it and we look forward to change in process.

Where we differ is on the VAC numbers and what is driving the need for this transformation. The key driver is that soon—all too soon—there will be no World War II veterans or Korean veterans for Veterans Affairs to serve. The end of World War II was 67 years ago, and even if you consider a serviceman or servicewoman who got out of the military in 1945 at 21 years of age, that person is 88 years old. Demographics are catching up with the World War II veterans.

Canada has been a member of NATO since the beginning of April 1949. That's a lot of Canadians who have served with NATO. It is estimated that in these years, close to one million—recognizing that we currently have 700,000 veterans on the books, not including those currently serving—Canadian men and women have served on NATO ships, in NATO units, or in NATO RCAF squadrons.

Modern-day veterans are going to be the future clients of Veterans Affairs, and Veterans Affairs must be prepared to serve this group in the future.

The topic of caring for our veterans is a subject that has been debated since the Boer War, and we're going to be celebrating its 110th anniversary. Unfortunately, the intensity of these discussions has been driven by the proximity of the country's latest military encounters. As a consequence, many of the deficiencies in today's existing Veterans Charter are a result of modifications associated with World War II and Korea. The post-World War II and the Korean veterans have been left behind.

A report prepared in March 2004 by the Veterans Affairs advisory council, entitled “Honouring Canada's Commitment”, contains an excellent condensed review of the history of veterans issues. The NATO Veterans Organization of Canada fully recognizes the sacrifices of World War II and Korean veterans and fully supports all the benefits available to that generation of Canadian servicemen and women. However, at some point in time, the federal government deemed it appropriate to place the post-Korean members of the Canadian Forces in an inferior category. The fact of the matter is that the vast majority of the so-called modern-day veterans served the country in uniform much longer and under equally hazardous conditions as our predecessors.

The rigours of military service have very few parallels in occupations in the civilian world, whether that service was in the air, on the sea, or in a land component. Many years of continuous days and hours in an armoured personnel carrier, tank, truck, ship, or aircraft, in many environments and in many countries, seeing things you should not see or don't want to see, takes its toll on the human body—as we're finding out—be it the knees, hips, back, lungs, hearing, or the mind. These ailments may not become evident until many years following release from the Canadian Forces, but they can be, and in many cases are, directly attributed to military service.

There is also the long-term impact on the families of the service personnel who are obliged to endure lengthy periods of absence of their spouses on foreign duty. It is estimated that there are currently upwards of 700,000 post-World War II and Korea veterans in Canada. Perhaps only as few as 200,000 belong to a veterans association, and probably even fewer require assistance from Veterans Affairs. Whatever the figure, there are many veterans out there who are in need of support. The major question here is why in Canada today a differentiation is made in benefits between veterans of WWII and Korea and post-war veterans who served this country equally and faithfully during the Cold War, the Balkans, in peacekeeping such as Cyprus, in the Gulf War, Libya, and now Afghanistan.

As members here are no doubt aware, the Veterans Affairs Canada-Canadian Forces Advisory Council, in its report of 2004, proposed 15 principles and procedures that would guide the development of the new Veterans Charter. In addition, the advisory council made six recommendations for priority consideration. Only a small portion of these recommendations were ever incorporated in the charter.

There is an inadequacy of the charter with respect to long-term care facilities for aging veterans. Veterans coming back from, say, Afghanistan think they're going to be taken care of by long-term care. That's not the case. Despite the flaws in the charter, it has been labelled a so-called living document. A major shortfall is the lack of provision of facilities for long-term care for aging veterans. Of the original 11 veterans hospitals created in 1915, and the subsequent expansion up to 45 after World War II, none remain.

VAC has made agreements with the provinces to provide for contracted beds within a number of medical facilities, but these contracted beds are available only to World War II and Korean veterans, not to non-traditional veterans. As the number of traditional veterans decreases, the contracted beds are turned back to provincial control for use by the general public. This is happening now in Ottawa right in Perley. The question is why these beds are not being made available to modern-day veterans, and made available to modern-day veterans on a priority basis.

It is our contention that the distinction in eligibility for benefits between traditional and modern-day veterans must be removed. This will finally give some validity to the minister's statement that a veteran is a veteran.

Ladies and gentlemen, veterans are a federal responsibility, not a provincial responsibility. The Canadian Forces are now, and always have been, a federal government agency. By logical extension, veterans of the Canadian Forces remain a federal government responsibility for the provision of care and its administration. The federal government has an inherent responsibility to provide efficient and detailed supervision of the provision of health care to all its veterans and to ensure a system of detailed accountability.

When this proposal was made to Veterans Affairs, the response was the following:

As the provision of long term care is a provincial responsibility, the majority of our Veterans are assessed and placed in approved long term care facilities by the relevant provincial agency. Facility licensing and monitoring are also provincial responsibilities.

The fact that veterans are assessed and placed in approved long-term care facilities by the relevant provincial agency removes from Veterans Affairs Canada any direct involvement with a veteran. There are at least 13 different health care systems and health care standards, each with its own set of priorities and each largely driven by provincial finances. Veterans, I repeat, are a federal responsibility, not a provincial one.

In conclusion, NATO Veterans is committed to ensuring that no veteran should have to strive for their health care benefits by resorting to public appeals for justice through news articles, camp-outs in front of the minister's office, or vigils. We should not be put in this position.

Thank you, sir.

[The Chair, Conservative, Greg Kerr]

Thank you, Mr. Jenkins.

Now we'll go to Mr. O'Brien.

[Robert O'Brien, Chairman, Board of Directors, Canadian Association of Veterans in United Nations Peacekeeping]

Mr. Chairman, ladies and gentlemen, CAVUNP, which is the short form for the Canadian Association of Veterans in United Nations Peacekeeping, has been around for roughly 25 years. The organization began essentially as a social organization, but we soon came to realize that no legislation or programs treated casualties of peacekeeping operations. We began to try to help each other informally as best we could, but we spent a lot of our early years on the remembrance side of things, commemorating actions that had been taken.

Two activities occurred that changed our minds. One was the development and implementation of the new Veterans Charter; the second was Afghanistan. With the grief and the suffering, along with the heroism, that flowed out of that distant battlefield, we accepted that the modern-day veteran was not being well-served by the new Veterans Charter and the programs associated with it. Change is required, and that brings us to transformation.

A week ago, three wise directors general from the east gave you some words on transformation. It's impossible to argue against what they were proposing. The ideas surely reflected ideas that veterans organizations and individuals have been longing for through the years, but you will forgive me if I am not ready to lead the cheerleading for transition just yet.

That may be due in part to the new Veterans Charter, that living document, which has been amended once in six years, and there are no amendments on the horizon of which I'm aware. It may be due to the dozens of recommendations made by many groups, including the unanimous recommendations of this very committee, which have not been implemented in whole or in part. It may be due to that deplorable report we recently got on the Veterans Review and Appeal Board. A 60% turnback from a court to that organization does not represent just a bunch of legal paperwork; it represents human beings who are suffering and did not get the help they needed. It may be due to the most recent shock from the closing of offices across the country.

Last fall the veterans community, almost without exception, pleaded that Canada follow the American and British initiatives to exempt veterans' matters from the requirements of the economic difficulties in which much of the world finds itself. You may well say that the economic difficulties face all of Canada, and the veterans must share the sacrifice. I suggest to you, ladies and gentlemen, that the veterans have already made the sacrifice, and now it's Canada's turn.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

[The Chair, Conservative, Greg Kerr]

Thank you, Mr. O'Brien.

Are you going to go first?