Veterans Affairs Committee on June 7th, 2012

[Nancy Murray]

Thank you very much for your question.

It depends upon the model and the complexity of the client. In Ontario, for example, you have case managers who are dealing with, in generalist caseloads, over 100, and in specialty caseloads, perhaps 80. In the intensive models that they are using, I know that one region is looking at 60 clients per case manager. There are others looking at 30 per case manager.

In the intensive integrated model, that one case manager then has 30 teams to work with, because each client has their own set of particular professionals that she'll be working with.

So 30 is what they're looking at trying as the optimal. There is no research that I know of in Canada that actually speaks to that specifically.

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

Thank you.

Ray, in your organization, the advisory group of the various veterans organizations made 18 recommendations, I believe, to the department, and you asked them to expedite those recommendations as soon as possible. Have you heard back from the department or the minister on if and when any of those recommendations would be accepted, and when they would happen?

[Ray Kokkonen]

We haven't had any information back.

Incidentally, the 18 recommendations, the most recent made by this committee, were not part of the motions that were passed in the stakeholders committee.

In fact, Mr. Chair, perhaps I could summarize the motions that were passed by the stakeholders: that the VAC fully implement the recommendations of the NVC advisory group as endorsed and complemented by the Standing Committee on Veterans Affairs; that VAC fully implement the recommendations of the Gerontological Advisory Council report; and that the recommendations of the special needs advisory group be incorporated in the federal government's full implementation of the NVC advisory group report.

Those were the motions.

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

So it's fair to say you haven't heard back officially from the department on that yet.

[Ray Kokkonen]

Nothing yet.

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

Okay.

And I do thank you as well...my final question for you is regarding the concerns of long-term health care benefits for modern-day veterans.

As you know, World War II and Korean overseas veterans who have a disability will have access to, for example, Camp Hill, the Perley, Colonel Belcher, and Ste. Anne’s, obviously before the transfer, but the modern-day veterans, people such as yourselves, may not. I know in Nova Scotia they're quite concerned about that in terms of what the additional costs will be to the province in that regard.

Have you done any estimates yourself in terms of research of what it may cost the provinces if indeed they have to pick up that long-term health care for modern-day veterans in the future?

[Ray Kokkonen]

No, we don't really have the capability for that kind of research.

I know that the NATO Veterans Organization has produced some numbers in those terms, but I'm not even sure what they've done.

But no, we have not.

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

Thank you very much.

Thank you all very much for coming.

[The Chair, Conservative, Greg Kerr]

Thank you, Mr. Stoffer, for being so efficient. That's excellent. Thank you very much.

Mr. Chisu, for five minutes.

[Corneliu Chisu, Conservative, Pickering—Scarborough East, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you very much for showing up at our committee.

I have a question for Ms. Nancy Murray about the core body of knowledge.

As I understand it, this case management course you're offering at McMaster University is establishing the academic requirement, let's say, for a case manager. You're outlining an academic requirement for the case manager.

I'm just telling you this because I was the vice-president of Professional Engineers Ontario, and I have some knowledge about professional bodies.

[Nancy Murray]

Right.

The course that McMaster University offers is a certificate course. It offers five core courses that need to be completed in five years.

In order to be eligible to take the program, generally you either have to have an undergrad degree completed or have some kind of certificate or be working in an appropriate related environment and make an application that way.

It's a certificate program, so it's not a degree.

[Corneliu Chisu, Conservative, Pickering—Scarborough East, ON]

It's not a degree, but it's establishing the basis. For example, can this individual who has completed your course be a member of the National Case Management Network of Canada?

[Nancy Murray]

That's not a requirement. No, our certificate program is not a requirement for being a member of the case managers network.

[Corneliu Chisu, Conservative, Pickering—Scarborough East, ON]

Okay, so that's where I am going. What is your requirement as to academics for your professional association? Because I understand, Ms. Park, that you've incorporated this association. It's a professional association, so you've probably established standards for the professional association and have academic requirements, and probably you also eventually will have an experience requirement.

[Joan Park]

The road of credentialing is probably the path we're going down, right?

[Corneliu Chisu, Conservative, Pickering—Scarborough East, ON]

Yes.

[Joan Park]

We've established standards of practice and are currently working on core competencies, all with the intent of identifying a credentialing process. As for who would want a credentialing process, maybe an employer, or maybe an individual. That's the process we're going down....

As for being a member of our network, anyone who supports our mandate to promote excellence and professionalism in case management can be a member of our network.

[Corneliu Chisu, Conservative, Pickering—Scarborough East, ON]

My question is this: how are you verifying competency? Because if you are a professional association, you need to have standards of competencies, and I understand that you are a Canadian organization.

[Joan Park]

That's correct.

[Corneliu Chisu, Conservative, Pickering—Scarborough East, ON]

What about relations with the provinces, which usually license health professionals and other professionals. In the health professions act, there were 21 health professions under the umbrella of the health professionals....

[Joan Park]

Case management today is not a profession. Case management is a process, and it's a role. It is not a profession. In my day job, I'm a nurse at St. Michael's as a case manager, so I am a professional nurse.

I am a regulated health professional in that regard, but there are many people practising case management, some who are regulated health professionals and some who are not. It's a reason for this national network to begin establishing standards of practice—core competencies—to lead to either a voluntary credentialing process or a legislated credentialing process.

[Corneliu Chisu, Conservative, Pickering—Scarborough East, ON]

So my question was related because you were speaking about the professional associations.

[Joan Park]

That's correct.

[Corneliu Chisu, Conservative, Pickering—Scarborough East, ON]

I just wanted to have some clarification on that.

[Joan Park]

Yes.