Evidence of meeting #19 for Veterans Affairs in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was charter.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Mark Fuchko  As an Individual
Brian Forbes  Chairman, National Council of Veteran Associations in Canada
Deanna Fimrite  Dominion Secretary-Treasurer, Army, Navy and Air Force Veterans in Canada
Richard Blackwolf  National President and Chief Executive Officer, CAV, National Alliance, Canadian Aboriginal Veterans and Serving Members Association
Joseph Burke  National Service Officer, Ottawa, NAV, National Alliance, Canadian Aboriginal Veterans and Serving Members Association
Derrill Henderson  Vice-Chair, National Secretary, Hong Kong Veterans Association, National Council of Veteran Associations in Canada

7:10 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Greg Kerr

Okay.

7:10 p.m.

Conservative

Laurie Hawn Conservative Edmonton Centre, AB

Thank you, Mr. Trost.

One of the issues we've had over and over again, and one of the issues we're trying to deal with, is the inability to transfer information between DND and VAC, because the Privacy Act has been getting in the way. It's not DND's fault and it's not VAC's fault, per se.

A couple of solutions—we're also working on a bill to hopefully deal with it—are to treat DND and VAC, for the purposes of the Privacy Act, as one department so that there is no wall between them. Some do get a copy, apparently, and some don't. I didn't, and I know many, many others who didn't. I got a copy of my medical files by accident. That was the only reason. But I've talked to many people who didn't get their files. It's not mandated that they get it.

Part of the changes would be to mandate that the person is proactively offered a copy of their medical file. The original has to stay with DND.

7:10 p.m.

National President and Chief Executive Officer, CAV, National Alliance, Canadian Aboriginal Veterans and Serving Members Association

Richard Blackwolf

It could be a change in era. The policy may have changed.

Your age might have a lot to do with it.

7:10 p.m.

Voices

Oh, oh!

7:10 p.m.

Conservative

Laurie Hawn Conservative Edmonton Centre, AB

No; thank you for that accurate observation, but I'm talking about guys who were released just in the last few months.

7:10 p.m.

National Service Officer, Ottawa, NAV, National Alliance, Canadian Aboriginal Veterans and Serving Members Association

Joseph Burke

I find that very hard to believe because—

7:10 p.m.

Conservative

Laurie Hawn Conservative Edmonton Centre, AB

They're not lying to me.

7:10 p.m.

National Service Officer, Ottawa, NAV, National Alliance, Canadian Aboriginal Veterans and Serving Members Association

Joseph Burke

As I was saying before all this started, I'm the generation of medic before the words “case manager” came in. That was my job as a medic; I was a case manager. When we brought the case management in we sat down in Montreal. The government hired Mont Tremblant.... We all sat around and said, “What are we going to make of these case managers?” We came up with a tick sheet. You can find it in anybody who's been released since a case manager.... Veterans Affairs has almost the same tick sheet. You go around, and everybody here who's ever been in the military...you used to have to sign on to a base with a little card. The case manager has the same card, and on that card it states, “Photocopy handed to member.” So if they're using another card on another base, then you're going to have to take that up with DND. But I can tell you, from Toronto, from Ottawa, from Trenton, and from Comox— all four of those bases—you will get a photocopy as of 2001.

7:10 p.m.

Conservative

Laurie Hawn Conservative Edmonton Centre, AB

I can tell you there's a general officer who has just retired in Edmonton and he could not convince the master corporal in medical records to give him a copy of his medical documents. It's not uniform, and I guess that's one of the things. We need to make sure that it is mandated by law, regulation, whatever.

I accept what you're saying.

7:10 p.m.

National Service Officer, Ottawa, NAV, National Alliance, Canadian Aboriginal Veterans and Serving Members Association

Joseph Burke

I suggest you put that to the defence committee and tell the defence committee to ask the general to put it in their work.

7:10 p.m.

Conservative

Laurie Hawn Conservative Edmonton Centre, AB

We're going to deal with that. Obviously, it's essential, I think, that the member does leave with his or her file.

7:10 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Greg Kerr

This is really unusual when you have a committee member saying there's a problem and you have one of the witnesses saying there isn't a problem. I'm having a little difficulty computing all this stuff.

Anyway, Mr. Trost, do you want to continue with this line of questioning?

April 1st, 2014 / 7:10 p.m.

Conservative

Bradley Trost Conservative Saskatoon—Humboldt, SK

I'll just ask one final question.

I'll start with Mr. Hawn, and then a few of the other members around the table. We're getting into some of the administrative aspects. We heard this earlier from Corporal Fuchko, and I've heard it from other people who've come through my office, from family members who have fought with Veterans Affairs over the years. A lot of the difficulty is not necessarily what is there for the program, but the frustration of getting to it.

Mr. Burke, you said one of your possible solutions was merging the Department of National Defence with Veterans Affairs, and perhaps that would make it easier.

Two questions. Is there anything in the Veterans Charter that can be done, any recommendations that you have, to make the administrative burden easier for members as they leave, as they go through the system? Or are there other places where we can do this? Honestly, it doesn't matter how good the programs are, how good everything is. If you don't know where to go to it, if you don't know how to access it, it's useless. One of the examples the previous witness gave was the three quotes he had to have to be able to retrofit his house. It was very difficult in a hot western Canadian economy to get three quotes to fix his house.

You had one very practical administrative suggestion earlier. Is there something else that, on a priority level, would help members get services quicker, faster, and more efficiently?

7:15 p.m.

Chairman, National Council of Veteran Associations in Canada

Brian Forbes

I think I might answer that because I'm intrigued by that line of questioning.

We'd rather maybe optimistically talk to the minister and the department on a regular basis about placing the onus on the department official, who may be in a district office or who may be on that phone call or who may be on an online service feeder, to make it basically the responsibility of the government to have that list of benefits. Quite frankly, the average veteran, as you've properly put it, really doesn't know what his benefits are. It shouldn't be up to the veteran.

I may be unrealistic to suggest that because we're going into an era. I would have thought with the new Veterans Charter the departmental people would be now educated sufficiently to take on that role. For what that's worth, I think it's worth pursuing. I think the minister and the previous minister were certainly very enthused about trying to improve that level of efficiency.

Our particular pet project is that there should be more presumptions in the system, and I don't mean that in a legalistic way. If I come to you as a double-leg amputee, like Mr. Fuchko, I shouldn't have to do much more than that. I should just simply say, “Look, I'm a double-leg amputee. What have you got for me?” It shouldn't be up to Mr. Fuchko to go out there and get estimates. It shouldn't be up to Mr. Fuchko to make copious applications for various benefits, because an individual like him will have to apply for disability awards, an earnings loss benefit, a PIA, an enhanced PIA. It's frustrating. It's discouraging. Can we not develop a presumptive system?

Perhaps you don't mind my saying one last thing. One of the recommendations we made earlier in our submission was that if you take PIA, and Mr. Fuchko comes to you as a 100% pensioner, he gets a grade 1 PIA. Don't ask him to get medical reports. Don't ask him to get evidence. He doesn't need it surely. He's a seriously disabled veteran. If he's between 48% and 78%, he gets a grade 2. It's a presumption. People think, well, is that fair?

Let's try to make the system efficient. I think that's the core of your question. Let's try to make the system work.

7:15 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Greg Kerr

Thank you very much. We did manage once again to get over eight minutes so we had fulsome discussions.

I want to thank our witnesses very much for this contribution. I know there's frustration, but also we're making progress. So thank you very much for being here.

7:15 p.m.

Voices

Hear, hear!

7:15 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Greg Kerr

Folks, we're gone.

The meeting is adjourned.