Mr. Speaker, I welcome this opportunity today to speak to Bill C-206, an act to provide for the relocation and protection of witnesses, standing in the name of the hon. member for Scarborough West. I would like to comment first on the principle of the bill and then on its substance or content.
As far as the principle is concerned, I am glad to see that some government members think about the issues. We have at least one member who just showed us he had examined a situation that was deplorable and who has now introduced a bill on his own initiative, and he is to be commended for that. I agree it is intolerable that today we have no legislation to protect these people. Canada is a society that provides a lot of protection for the rights of offenders and the rights of defendants, but very little for the rights of people who go to court to testify so that the accused will answer for the crime they committed.
Yes, we have the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms. I checked the Charter, because I thought there might be something in it to provide for this. The only section is section 7, which says: "Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of the person-" Other than that, there is nothing in the Criminal Code or any other item of criminal or penal legislation that deals directly with the subject the member has approached through his private members' bill.
Today, there are certain ways, and certain funds are used, to protect these witnesses, but that is not enough, and the trouble is that it is at the discretion of the police. I think that a program of this kind, when we are talking about taxpayers' money, should be organized so that everyone is treated equally, and I think this bill takes that approach.
On what basis do people make a decision, when we say these decisions are discretionary? How do they decide whether or not funds will be allocated in a given case? Does it depend on whether one criminal is more dangerous than another criminal? Does it depend on the fact that some crimes are more repugnant than others? I think it is intolerable to talk about "discretionary" in this respect.
The police force that makes the assessment can also make a wrong decision without being made to account for that decision. Sometimes these mistakes are covered up. It is very difficult, and I will give you an example of what I mean.
Since being appointed Official Opposition critic for the Solicitor General of Canada on October 25, I have had two cases that fit in very well with the bill of the hon. member for Scarborough. I will ask this House a question.
What do Lucie Leblanc from New Brunswick, Sue Smith from Alberta and Mireille Martin from Quebec have in common? What they have in common is that they are the same person. In five years this person changed names three times. I am giving them because the last time she called me, she told me she would be changing her name for the fourth time since her husband, a criminal famous across Canada, had discovered her new identity. How did he do it? The people dealing with her case had made every conceivable change to her passport, driver's licence, social insurance number and other pieces of ID but made a mistake in registering the car she was provided with under the name of Mireille Martin from Quebec. She had been living in fear for a few months, not knowing exactly where to go, how to proceed, or where to find money. She asked me to approach the
Solicitor General of Canada to have her case dealt with expeditiously because she was living in a terrible situation.
I too came up against a brick wall. I could not get information or find anyone accountable in this case. However, she told me herself that after a few calls her case was finally dealt with, but only after a member of Parliament intervened.
If the mistake is very serious, the person who did not enforce the law properly, who made the mistake, should be held accountable and asked where the money went to.
I am not saying the mistake was intentional; honest mistakes can be made but they can have serious consequences for the individuals who are given money to protect them from potential harm.
With all due respect to the hon. member, it is not a matter of reinventing the wheel. I think this is a good bill but, as he said, we must look at what is done elsewhere. There is a similar program in the United States. I also looked at Italy where, given what is happening with justice in that country, legislation was passed to protect witnesses. Great Britain also has a similar program.
This means that all great societies concerned with the protection of victims and offenders, whether accused or charged, are also concerned with the protection of witnesses, because I think it is all tied together in the system.
This kind of bill, if passed-I will address contents later-will send a clear message to the criminal element as well as to witnesses and the public, the message that this House takes this matter seriously, that we will not let the people who testify in court down.
I think that any legislation that supports, not informers because I do not like that word, but let us say witnesses who come forward, is good for the system we live in. If we encourage people to come forward and testify, I think that it will show in rulings, sentencing and the entire system. I think the judicial system stands to benefit greatly.
In my legal practice, I have noticed that it is one thing for a witness to testify, but quite another to give convincing evidence. I may comply when served a subpoena, yet be extremely reluctant to answer questions, knowing that my life could be in danger as soon as I step out of the court. Perhaps I would feel safer and my evidence would be more convincing if I knew that, when I walk out of court, there will be people there to protect me.
I am not saying that such a measure should be applied in all criminal courts. The mere fact of witnessing a murder near my home does not automatically endanger my life. However, my life could be in danger if I testified in a case involving organized crime or a major case of fraud. I think that work could be done on this bill to amend it so that it could become very useful to Canada and Quebec.
I knew from Quebec statistics that many crimes went unpunished because no one was actually found guilty. I was surprised to see Canadian statistics for the period 1980-1992. Over this 12-year period, for murders alone, there were 1,455 unsolved murder cases. One can wonder how many cases of fraud, robbery, assault and well-planned crimes also went unsolved. We could then ask ourselves the same question about smuggling. I think that it is a very important subject and that this deficiency must be corrected as soon as possible.
So I think that this bill could encourage witnesses to come forward and say what they know in order to clear up some crimes and some cases for which the criminals go unpunished.
As for the principle, there is no problem, we agree 100 per cent. The Official Opposition, the Bloc Quebecois, will support you on this bill. I think that we have always shown that we co-operate when presented with a good bill, and I think that is a way to show it to you again and to tell you again that we will co-operate with you on this bill.
I do not have much to say about the form and content. Of course, some small adjustments could be made, including the following. I would immediately take the matter to the Solicitor General. I would say that he is responsible for applying this bill once it is adopted, not a member of the Privy Council. In the Committee on Justice and Legal Affairs, among colleagues and people working on that committee, we will easily be able to come to an understanding; I say "easily" because everyone around the table will be on the same wavelength, so we will be able to agree.
But on the whole-and I conclude with that-regarding this bill, I would ask the whole House to be unanimous and I would ask the government to pay very careful attention to this private member's bill, and perhaps we will have something to show that private members' bills can go somewhere, for the good of society in general that will benefit from it.