Debates of Nov. 7th, 1995

Social Programs

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development and Minister of Western Economic Diversification]

Mr. Speaker, it is not so incredible that a minister of the crown upholds the laws of Canada. The laws of Canada under the Canada assistance plan state very clearly that individual provinces should not cut transfer payments for those from out of province. That protects a basic right enshrined in the Constitution, the right of mobility. All Canadians should be treated equally. Even though they may be poor Canadians, they should still get equal treatment.

I would like to clarify one important point for the hon. member. I have not been threatening British Columbia. I have said very clearly that there are many opportunities for us to try to resolve these problems. Some very serious conditions should be addressed. The provinces have set up a forum called the Council of Social Ministers. They are supposed to be meeting to arrive at a common approach to these issues.

It would be unfortunate for one province to take unilateral action when all the provinces have tried to come together to find a co-operative approach. I am quite prepared to meet with them and deal with it.

It would be much more important for the hon. member to be directing her concerns to the ministers of the B.C. government who seem to be thwarting or short circuiting a very effective and co-operative federal-provincial process.

[Jan Brown, Reform, Calgary Southeast, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the welfare reforms in B.C. are not illegal. In fact, if the minister was familiar with the charter he would know that section 6(4) clearly demonstrates that B.C.'s changes are legal.

Canadians are demanding fundamental change to government. The provinces are demanding more freedom. The minister is jeopardizing national unity by threatening the provinces, especially when his legal facts are wrong.

The minister is meddling in provincial jurisdiction where he has no legal right. Why will the minister not admit that his empty grandstanding is nothing more than another federal government power grab?

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development and Minister of Western Economic Diversification]

Mr. Speaker, this is a time in the history of the country when all regions should be building bridges, not walls and barriers.

The hon. member, as a federal member of Parliament, is endorsing actions which are clearly contrary to the law under the Canada assistance plan. All of a sudden the hon. member seems to have acquired great powers of legal judgment.

I would simply refer the hon. member to the Finlay case in the federal court, which clearly substantiates the responsibility of the federal government to uphold the basic conditions under the Canada assistance plan. I would recommend that before the hon. member starts to lecture people on the law that she should first read the law.

Canadian Armed Forces

[Monique Guay, Bloc, Laurentides, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of National Defence.

Last week, we learned that, in addition to the racist and degrading behaviour of members of the former airborne regiment in Petawawa, some of them even organized, on two occasions, parties to celebrate the anniversary of the tragedy which occurred at Montreal's École polytechnique, in which 14 innocent victims lost their lives.

Given the behaviour of these soldiers, will the Minister of National Defence admit that, at this point in time, the least he can do is to immediately suspend the promotions granted to those involved?

[David Collenette, Liberal, Minister of National Defence and Minister of Veterans Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, first I would like to welcome the hon. member, as she has obviously been appointed as the new defence critic. That is quite appropriate, given the inflammatory remarks of the hon. member for Charlesbourg in a press release two days before the referendum.

With respect to the question, it was posed yesterday and it was answered yesterday.

[Translation]

[Monique Guay, Bloc, Laurentides, QC]

Mr. Speaker, it is absolutely appalling to make light of such an important issue.

I would like to know why the government disbanded Petawawa's airborne regiment before the inquiry had even begun, but must now wait until the end of the inquiry before suspending the promotions granted to some who were directly involved in such despicable acts?

[David Collenette, Liberal, Minister of National Defence and Minister of Veterans Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, these matters were dealt with earlier this year with the disbanding of the airborne regiment and some comments which I made in the House some weeks ago about various promotions.

Indian Affairs

[John Duncan, Reform, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Industry has been aware of the abuse of his department's aboriginal business development programs and specifically the role played by Mr. Henry Wetelainen, president of the Ontario Metis and Aboriginal Association, based in Sault Ste. Marie.

This individual has misappropriated millions of dollars of taxpayers' money, most of it on companies which are now bankrupt or inactive.

In June the minister promised to investigate and act. Why has he failed to clear up this misappropriation of funds?

[John Manley, Liberal, Minister of Industry]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member makes very serious allegations of a criminal nature. He knows that these matters, if they are true, will be dealt with by the appropriate law enforcement agencies.

[John Duncan, Reform, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I would like a commitment from the minister that he has indeed launched an investigation.

The Ontario Metis and Aboriginal Association has been a haven for patronage, cronyism and grossly irresponsible spending. The real losers in this scenario are the aboriginal people who have lost access to capital for improving their quality of life.

Can the aboriginal people of Canada expect anything more than platitudes from the red book when it comes to righting wrongs of the type perpetrated on them by the Henry Wetelainens of this country?

[John Manley, Liberal, Minister of Industry]

Mr. Speaker, I think the answer to the first question stands.

I would say this to the hon. member. I do not think we need lessons from the Reform Party on how to help the aboriginal people establish themselves in ways that are going to promote their self-sufficiency and their entry into the real markets of the world.

That is what the aboriginal business program has been doing. We have been providing opportunity to entrepreneurs in aboriginal communities to build businesses that are enabling them to be part of the real economy.

Canadian Armed Forces

[Jean H. Leroux, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of National Defence.

Despite the totally unacceptable behaviour of a number of soldiers and officers of the former airborne regiment from Petawawa, the Minister of National Defence is still refusing to review or suspend the promotions given those involved in this matter.

Is it not shameful that the Minister of National Defence allows the Canadian army to promote individuals involved in the events at Petawawa, that the army even decorated the commander of the former regiment and that the minister himself is today refusing to suspend the promotions?

[David Collenette, Liberal, Minister of National Defence and Minister of Veterans Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, I appreciate the hon. member's comment, because the sovereignists' opinion on racism is well known.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[David Collenette, Liberal, Don Valley East, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I have already answered this question.

[Jean H. Leroux, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Mr. Speaker, how dare the minister respond in this way? I asked him a question through you and I think I am entitled to an answer.

Here is my supplementary. Is the minister not behaving totally unacceptably by refusing to suspend the promotions of the soldiers involved in the events in Petawawa? How would he react if the Solicitor General suddenly decided to promote those responsible for security at 24 Sussex?

[David Collenette, Liberal, Minister of National Defence and Minister of Veterans Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member says that he is entitled to an answer.

I would say so are the thousands of Quebecers who were maligned by the sovereignists on the night of the referendum because of their ethnic origin and their participation in the vote entitled to an answer.

Infrastructure Program

[Paul Szabo, Liberal, Mississauga South, ON]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the minister responsible for the national infrastructure program.

In Mississauga South we have benefited from the Canada-Ontario infrastructure program. As a number of infrastructure projects are nearing completion, Peel region municipalities want to know if further funds are available for additional work?

[Art Eggleton, Liberal, President of the Treasury Board and Minister responsible for Infrastructure]

Mr. Speaker, I have good news for the House.

In the less than two years since we launched this program we have already allocated 95 per cent of the original $6 billion that the three levels of government put into this program. These over 11,000 projects have put more than 100,000 Canadians back to work. In the member's constituency, some 22 projects have put some 1,000 people back to work.

To answer specifically the question of the member, we are currently evaluating the program to determine where we go from here. This program has been very successful. It has been successful also in bringing three levels of government together which proves that governments can work in partnership quite successfully.

Indian Affairs

[Jim Abbott, Reform, Kootenay East, BC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Industry. He just finished speaking about the episode with the OMAA and said if these matters are true they will be investigated.

The House should know that the minister made a commitment on June 22 in public on Goldhawk that he was going to be investigating this issue. Has he investigated the issue, and what are the present results?

[John Manley, Liberal, Minister of Industry]

Mr. Speaker, as I explained earlier, if there is evidence of the allegations that were made by the member posing the question previously, the action will be taken by the appropriate law enforcement officers. I am not going to comment on the status of investigations bearing on criminal matters.

With respect to the program itself, the hon. member will know that the incident arose under the aboriginal capital corporations part of the aboriginal business program, an area which has not received additional funding since the 1994 budget.

[Jim Abbott, Reform, Kootenay East, BC]

Mr. Speaker, the minister may know that Mr. Wetelainen's father received $100,000 as part of this program. It is alleged that it came back to Mr. Wetelainen. This is a very serious matter.

I ask the minister one more time: Is he going to make a commitment today or can he inform the House that in fact there has been a criminal investigation of this matter commenced? If not, why not?

[John Manley, Liberal, Minister of Industry]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member describes this as a serious matter and he is right. He should treat it as such and let the police do their work.

The Crtc

[Suzanne Tremblay, Bloc, Rimouski—Témiscouata, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Industry. After reviewing its decision at the government's request, last week, the CRTC approved again a $2 per month increase in local phone rates. This increase will come into effect on January 1, 1996, and will be followed by another $2 per month increase on January 1, 1997. A third increase is scheduled for sometime in 1998.

Could the minister tell us if he endorses the CRTC's latest decision, after having rejected its September 1994 decision?

[John Manley, Liberal, Minister of Industry]

Mr. Speaker, it would be premature to give a substantive response to the hon. member's question. She will know that there is a period for petitions to be received by the governor in council in response to the CRTC decision. Those may be made by any interested citizen, including the hon. member if she has specific views on what should be the response to the decision of the CRTC.

We will take all these petitions into consideration before cabinet makes any determination, if one in fact is called for by petition.