Debates of Dec. 11th, 1995

The Deficit

[Herb Grubel, Reform, Capilano—Howe Sound, BC]

Mr. Speaker, tomorrow the Minister of Finance will meet with his 10 provincial counterparts, eight of whom have announced definite dates for wiping out their deficits. Will the minister listen to them and learn how to balance his budget, or will he bring them more bad news about downloading and his own inadequate interim targets?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance and Minister responsible for the Federal Office of Regional Development-Quebec]

Mr. Speaker, as the hon. member knows full well, we have set out a very clear procedure to arrive at deficit elimination. The government is on track and continues to follow that track.

As far as my preparedness to listen to my provincial counterparts, I can assure the hon. member that is indeed one of the major purposes of tomorrow's meeting. I look forward to hearing what they have to say.

[Herb Grubel, Reform, Capilano—Howe Sound, BC]

Mr. Speaker, the news is out that the government's 2 per cent of GDP deficit target for 1997-98 can be reached with further negligible cuts. The minister blinked and lost his courage to do what is right for Canada. Will the minister go back to the drawing board, lower his deficit target, cut spending more and offer Canadians what they want and what they so richly deserve: a hope for tax cuts before the end of the century?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance and Minister responsible for the Federal Office of Regional Development-Quebec]

Mr. Speaker, there will undoubtedly be a requirement for the government to make further cuts in government spending to

ensure that we hit all of our targets: this year's, next year's, the 2 per cent and any targets which may be set thereafter.

If what the hon. member is saying is that it is very clear the action taken in our first two budgets has obviously set us on the right track, which is indeed the very clear implication of what he has just said, then I will take that as congratulations for the government on its first two budgets.

Canadian Social Transfer

[Yvan Loubier, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Finance. Over the next two days, federal and provincial finance ministers will meet to discuss the criteria to be used to distribute among the provinces the major cuts relating to the Canada social transfer.

Will the Minister of Finance tell us what criteria he intends to propose at that meeting to distribute the $4.5 billion cut in the Canada social transfer, shown in his last budget and relating to 1997-98?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance and Minister responsible for the Federal Office of Regional Development-Quebec]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member is well aware that there are several options. The government has yet to make a decision. It is truly our intention, tomorrow and Wednesday, to listen to the provinces and see what they think.

[Yvan Loubier, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Mr. Speaker, will the Minister of Finance pledge to reject the criterion based on population, which was included in his budget speech and also mentioned by his colleague, the Minister of Human Resources Development, by virtue of which Quebec would absorb 42 per cent of all federal cuts in that regard?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance and Minister responsible for the Federal Office of Regional Development-Quebec]

Mr. Speaker, the government did not indicate a preferred option. As I just said, it is our intention, tomorrow and Wednesday, to discuss with the provinces.

Surely, the provinces will express their views, and these will probably differ from province to province. The best that we can do is to reach a consensus.

National Capital

[Eugène Bellemare, Liberal, Carleton—Gloucester, ON]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Industry.

As the minister is aware, Canada's national capital region is currently struggling under the negative economic impact of government downsizing.

Will the minister tell us why it was important to support the highway 416 project? What else is the government doing or proposing to do to help the economic development of the national capital region?

[John Manley, Liberal, Minister of Industry]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member is quite right. In light of the reductions in the size of the public service, the national capital region has taken a large share of the cost of reducing government costs.

I am sure the member will also agree that public servants who are leaving the public service have been offered generous packages. As well there is the government's support under the industrial assistance strategy for the REDO effort to help with economic diversification in the region. Even more important is the announcement made last Friday on behalf of the Minister of Transport concerning the federal government's participation under the strategic transportation initiative program to complete the construction of highway 416. This was something our party had committed to in the last election.

The support of the hon. member for Leeds-Grenville was crucial in seeing this completed. There is also the support the Minister of Transport has given to the acquisition of the right of customs preclearance at Ottawa international airport which we hope we will be able to announce later this week. This will be of special benefit to this region as a result of the open skies agreement which again the Minister of Transport was finally able to negotiate last year.

Taxation

[Jim Silye, Reform, Calgary Centre, AB]

Mr. Speaker, last week the Minister of Finance stated in this House that the most important kind of tax relief this country should look to is a reduction in interest rates. Is that all? Is that the reward for his tough, tough budget and his two-year revolving target? Is that all this government has to offer to overtaxed Canadians?

I ask the Minister of Finance when, if ever, can Canadians expect to pay less in taxes than they did the year before?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance and Minister responsible for the Federal Office of Regional Development-Quebec]

Mr. Speaker, if one looks at the reaction around the world as governments have talked about high deficits and high debt and have talked about tax decreases, in fact the money markets have said to get the deficits down and get the debt down. That is very clearly the course we have decided to take.

I must say I find it incredible that the member stands up and simply dismisses reductions in interest rates. I would suggest he go back to his riding and talk to people who have to pay mortgages. He should talk to people who are buying cars and refrigerators. He should talk to people who want jobs. Maybe then he will understand how important it is for ordinary Canadians to have low interest rates.

[Jim Silye, Reform, Calgary Centre, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I am not here to compliment the minister. I am here to criticize the finance minister for not listening to the leading economists in this country and for not listening to the taxpayers. They are overtaxed and overburdened. They want fewer taxes and lower taxes.

The economists say we should get to 0 per cent of GDP a heck of a lot quicker than what the minister has put forward. He obviously does not understand what is ticking people off. He is too busy praising himself.

Why will the minister not do what is right, do what the people want and commit today to presenting a balanced budget within two years, keep his promise of eliminating the GST, thereby setting the stage for true tax relief?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance and Minister responsible for the Federal Office of Regional Development-Quebec]

I have to tell you, Mr. Speaker, that every time this member stands up he does express the Reform Party's economic policies. He said we should follow their budget. He then asked when this country was going to get to 0 per cent of GDP. I will tell you exactly when. When we follow your budget.

Tax Credits

[Suzanne Tremblay, Bloc, Rimouski—Témiscouata, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Finance.

In his last budget, the Minister of Finance announced plans to replace the capital cost allowance for Canadian film and television production with a refundable tax credit.

Given that Quebec film and television producers were sure that this tax credit would apply to the funding of their 1995 productions, could the Minister of Finance undertake to table a bill instituting this tax credit before the end of December?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance and Minister responsible for the Federal Office of Regional Development-Quebec]

Mr. Speaker, we do intend to introduce a bill shortly.

[Suzanne Tremblay, Bloc, Rimouski—Témiscouata, QC]

Mr. Speaker, does the minister realize that the lack of legislation translates into a $20 million shortfall at the very least for the Quebec independent production industry, jeopardizing the very survival of several production companies?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance and Minister responsible for the Federal Office of Regional Development-Quebec]

Mr. Speaker, I must say that the change that the hon. minister and myself have initiated had been requested by the industry and that the industry will greatly benefit from it.

That is why we made this change, and I can assure you that we will implement it as soon as possible.

Royal Canadian Mounted Police

[Ian McClelland, Reform, Edmonton Southwest, AB]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Solicitor General of Canada.

In 1992 Kim Campbell, then Minister of Justice and Attorney General, advised the House that an investigation into the activities of certain individuals and Hockey Canada was under way. She said: "The solicitor general has indicated that this matter is currently being investigated by the RCMP". In fact, the investigation did not commence until 48 days later.

Has the solicitor general initiated an investigation into the cause of the foot dragging by the RCMP under the previous Conservative government to determine if there was any political influence or interference in the RCMP investigation?

[Herb Gray, Liberal, Leader of the Government in the House of Commons and Solicitor General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, I have told the House on a number of occasions that it is the custom or convention that solicitors general do not get directly involved in operational matters. This is particularly the case when it comes to investigations undertaken by the RCMP.

[Ian McClelland, Reform, Edmonton Southwest, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the problem, Mr. Solicitor General is that Canadian-

[The Speaker]

I know it must have been a slip. The hon. member will address his remarks to the Chair.

[Ian McClelland, Reform, Edmonton Southwest, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the problem is that it was American law enforcement agencies that had taken the ball and were running with an investigation of what was essentially a Canadian problem.

In relation to the Eagleson investigation, in 1992 a request was made by American law enforcement agencies that the RCMP execute two search warrants to seize the records of All Canada Sports Promotion Limited in Toronto. The search was not carried out for a full two years after the U.S. agency requested a search warrant be executed.

Canadians have a right to know the reason for the delay. Will the solicitor general commence an investigation to determine if the delay was caused by political interference by the previous Conservative government?

[Herb Gray, Liberal, Leader of the Government in the House of Commons and Solicitor General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, it is interesting that the spokesman for the Reform Party is asking that the solicitor general involve himself directly in police investigations.

I want to reflect on the implications of the hon. member's question. I will see what information I can properly provide to the hon. member in light of the convention I have mentioned that police investigations are carried on at arm's length from ministers.

The Environment

[Charles Caccia, Liberal, Davenport, ON]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans who I would like to congratulate for his achievement at the United Nations last week.