Debates of March 22nd, 1995

Rail Transport

[Francine Lalonde, Bloc, Mercier, QC]

Mr. Speaker, since Monday, we have been proposing conditions which would ensure a quick return to work. Considering that conciliator Hope states in his report that there is collusion between the government and the employers, how can the Prime Minister claim that the arbitration commissions will do justice to the workers, since two of the three members will be appointed by the government and the employers?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member is quoting from a conciliation report that did not resolve the problem. She is asking us to enter into conciliation again, to have 60 more days of that. We have been in a strike situation now for many days. We will start over in 60 days? No way. They have to go back to work right now.

The Economy

[Preston Manning, Reform, Calgary Southwest, AB]

Mr. Speaker, today a meeting is supposed to take place between the Government of Canada and Moody's, the bond rating agency, to discuss Canada's credit rating.

Will the finance minister tell us when that meeting will take place, where it will take place and who will be representing Canada at the meeting?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance and Minister responsible for the Federal Office of Regional Development-Quebec]

Mr. Speaker, the meeting is taking place today. It has already begun. The officials from the Department of Finance will be there and I will be meeting with the agency later.

[Preston Manning, Reform, Calgary Southwest, AB]

Mr. Speaker, Canadians have a right not only to know who is representing them at that meeting but what they are going to be saying. If no timetable or plan is presented for deficit elimination as distinct from deficit reduction, our credit will be downgraded, our dollar will fall, our interest rates will rise and thousands of Canadians will be hurt.

Who is talking to Moody's and what are they saying about deficit elimination? Canadians have a right to know.

[Ray Speaker, Reform, Lethbridge, AB]

Colleagues, I am having a little bit of difficulty hearing and understanding the questions at this end of the Chamber.

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance and Minister responsible for the Federal Office of Regional Development-Quebec]

Mr. Speaker, I understand the difficulty the leader of the third party has thinking up three different questions.

I answered his first question. The officials of the Department of Finance are meeting with the agency and I will be meeting with the agency. I have not yet met with them. I will be doing so this afternoon.

Therefore it is quite difficult for me to tell the leader of the Reform Party what took place in that meeting because it has not taken place. You see, there is an order, Mr. Speaker.

[Preston Manning, Reform, Calgary Southwest, AB]

Mr. Speaker, my question was quite simple.

When the minister meets with Moody's is he going to present a plan for deficit elimination? If he is going to do that, why does he not present that plan to the House and to the Canadian people, not simply to an American bond rating agency?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance and Minister responsible for the Federal Office of Regional Development-Quebec]

Mr. Speaker, I responded to this question yesterday. I made it very clear the government's ultimate objective is to go to zero. I also made it very clear, and I will be confirming this to Moody's, we are going to be doing this with a series of short term targets because we feel it is the best way to get there.

I also told the leader of the third party yesterday that we would be not talking with the doom and gloom he likes to indulge in but about our productivity record, our inflation record, our job creation.

There is something I did not say yesterday because the information was not out. The volume of exports in January was up 3.3 per cent. This is the eighth consecutive increase and the trade balance has again set a new record.

[Some hon. members]

Hear, hear.

[Ray Speaker, Reform, Lethbridge, AB]

I love these Wednesdays.

Fisheries

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Verchères, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is directed to the Prime Minister. Half a dozen Spanish ships are now on the nose and tail of the Grand Banks off Newfoundland, fishing for Greenland halibut or turbot, despite the moratorium requested by Canada. Both Canadian and Spanish armed vessels are now patrolling this area.

Since the Canadian government has stated repeatedly that it would resort to seizures again if necessary, could the Prime Minister indicate what his government intends to do to make Spanish ships stop fishing on the nose and tail of the Grand Banks off Newfoundland?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, yesterday I had a chance to speak to President Santer of the European Union, and Prime Minister Gonzalez of Spain. Mr. Santer had indicated earlier that he hoped we would be able to negotiate a settlement to the dispute as soon as possible. That is what we intend to do.

It is true a number of ships are fishing at this time. There were 49 and now there are six. Yesterday I spoke to Mr. Gonzalez, and I told him to ask the Spanish fishermen to withdraw, because we have ordered our own fishermen to stop fishing and the same should apply to Spanish fishermen. I will be talking to Mr. Gonzalez again later today. Canada takes the position that a settlement should be such as ensure that in the future, fishing regulations will be complied with both outside and within the 200-mile zone. That is our goal, and in the interest of conservation we hope to attain it as soon as possible.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Verchères, QC]

Mr. Speaker, although apparently there was a cordial exchange between the Prime Minister and Mr. Gonzalez, would the Prime Minister agree that this defiant gesture by Spanish ships is a blow to the Canadian government's strategy for resolving the dispute with the European Union?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, at the present time, I think I would rather talk to Mr. Gonzalez and Mr. Santer, and try and find a way out of this. This is a problem that has existed for some time. We took an historic step a few days ago, and we now want to give negotiations a chance. I hope Mr. Gonzalez will be able to convince the fishermen to stop fishing so that a solution can be found.

If there is no change in the situation within the next few days, we will have to see what we can do.

Labour

[Charlie Penson, Reform, Peace River, AB]

Mr. Speaker, a one-week shutdown of our railways means an immediate short term loss of $3 billion to $5 billion including $1 billion in exports.

Canada's international reputation is damaged yet again by the 15th strike in 15 years with long term costs. At a time when Canada faces a credit downgrading by Moody's, will the Minister of Labour commit to a permanent solution with a final offer of settlement for essential services?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, we are looking into the problem. We have had some strikes that have caused a lot of damage to the Canadian economy. We are looking to find a way so that we will not be trapped in this situation all the time.

We have given the right to strike. On some occasions we have accepted some strikes because the situation was justifiable, but at this time the combination of strikes is too much for the

Canadian economy to take. This is why we have a bill before the House. We hope it will be passed by the end of the day so that work can resume as soon as possible.

[Charlie Penson, Reform, Peace River, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I can understand the governing party is having trouble handling the situation but the Canadian people do not have any patience with it. We have had 15 strikes in 15 years.

My supplementary question is for the Minister for International Trade. Forty per cent of Canadian exports depend on railways to move to market. The government's inaction on the issue last week led to significant financial losses for exporters.

Will the Minister for International Trade impress upon his colleague, the Minister of Labour, that Canada cannot afford further damage to our reputation as a reliable supplier?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, the Government of Canada has indicated very clearly its position. If we had not been faced with the opposition of the Bloc and the NDP, the bill would have been passed yesterday. We will do everything possible for the bill to be passed today.

National Defence

[Jean-Marc Jacob, Bloc, Charlesbourg, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Defence.

Yesterday, the Minister of Defence announced the creation of a commission of inquiry on the deployment of the Canadian Forces to Somalia. However, despite repeated requests from the official opposition, the minister refuses to broaden the commission's terms of reference to include other troubling events that have occurred at the Petawawa base.

How does the minister explain that the commission's terms of reference cover only the deployment of the Airborne Regiment in Somalia and that they contain no other provision regarding other events that have occurred at Petawawa and that have considerably sullied the reputation and the honour of the Canadian Forces?

[David Collenette, Liberal, Minister of National Defence and Minister of Veterans Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, we called the inquiry as promised to deal with the very serious problems that occurred when our troops were deployed to Somalia some two years ago.

The inquiry is public. It is headed by a civilian, a Federal Court judge, and will look into all aspects of the deployment to Somalia.

If the hon. member has other troubling questions that he would like to pose with respect to any other aspect of the armed forces, he should be specific, do it in the House, write to me or put an order paper question down, and I will be pleased to answer.

We are not going to have an investigation or an inquiry into every aspect of the Canadian Armed Forces and the Ministry of National Defence. We are restricting the inquiry to the events of 1993, the deployment of Canadian troops to that theatre.

[Jean-Marc Jacob, Bloc, Charlesbourg, QC]

Mr. Speaker, given that the minister undertook to bring all of the despicable events at Petawawa to light, are we to understand that the initiation rites and the display of the flag symbolizing white supremacy and the banner of the Klu Klux Klan openly and with the knowledge of senior officers constituted preparation for the mission to Somalia and will therefore be investigated?

[David Collenette, Liberal, Minister of National Defence and Minister of Veterans Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, if there is anything in the preparation of the Canadian airborne regiment for its duty in Somalia that needs to come to light, it should be investigated by the inquiry.

The terms of reference are exceedingly broad. The three commissioners are civilians of great repute. I have no question in my mind that they will get to the bottom of any question the hon. member has or the Canadian public has.

[Jack Frazer, Reform, Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased that the Minister of National Defence has seen the wisdom of conducting the Somalia investigation under the Inquiries Act rather than the National Defence Act.

My concern now is for members of the Canadian forces who may have pertinent information but hesitate to bring it forward for fear of career implications.

What provisions has the minister made to protect such individuals?

[David Collenette, Liberal, Minister of National Defence and Minister of Veterans Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, we are dealing here with a very serious matter. We have an inquiry under part I of the Inquiries Act.

Any Canadian with any evidence has a right and a duty to come forward to that inquiry and no impediment must be put in his or her way.