Debates of March 22nd, 1995

National Defence

[Jack Frazer, Reform, Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC]

Mr. Speaker, the minister did not exactly answer my question.

I have a supplementary question. Should the inquiry reveal that events involving the airborne regiment in and around

Somalia resulted from individual rather than systemic problems, will the minister reinstate the regiment?

[David Collenette, Liberal, Minister of National Defence and Minister of Veterans Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, I am a little frustrated. For a year now members of the opposition have asked for a public inquiry into these matters. They have their inquiry. Will they please let the commissioners do their job and report, and then we will look at it.

Bank Of Canada

[Yvan Loubier, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Mr. Speaker, yesterday, the senior deputy governor of the Bank of Canada, Bernard Bonin, set a dangerous precedent when he endorsed the analysis and conclusions of a prereferendum study carried out by the C.D. Howe Institute which concluded that Quebec's separation would provoke a serious economic upset and a capital drain which would force Quebec to mint its own currency.

Does the Minister of Finance feel that it is proper for the senior deputy governor of the Bank of Canada to become publicly involved in a political debate?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance and Minister responsible for the Federal Office of Regional Development-Quebec]

Mr. Speaker, all the senior deputy governor did was mention a very well done study on a topic being debated.

I must admit that I am very surprised that the first francophone to occupy this position in the history of Canada has been attacked by the Bloc critic. Personally, I intend to defend Bernard Bonin.

[Yvan Loubier, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the question is so important and serious that I will direct my supplementary question to the Prime Minister.

Does the Prime Minister, who as he said yesterday is the only one to have access to the ethics counsellor, intend to submit the case of the senior deputy governor of the Bank of Canada for an opinion and then report to the House on this important, serious and grave issue?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance and Minister responsible for the Federal Office of Regional Development-Quebec]

Mr. Speaker, I believe that the Bloc should listen to the message instead of attacking the messenger.

I am a little disappointed to hear what the opposition critic, who, by the way, is an honest man, has to say. The separatists have threatened to refuse to have anything to do with the banks or currency traders that tried to make economic forecasts regarding separation, they have stated that in their view allophones should not have the right to vote, and they rejected outright the C.D. Howe Institute's and Marcel Côté's analyses.

The truth is that all that the Bloc and the Parti Quebecois want is a monologue where the only voice which will be heard is their own.

Public Service

[Ian Murray, Liberal, Lanark—Carleton, ON]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the President of the Treasury Board and concerns pay equity.

Now that he has reached an agreement with the Professional Institute of the Public Service, is the minister prepared to try to reach an agreement with the Public Service Alliance of Canada which represents most of the lower paid public servants, many of whom are women?

[Art Eggleton, Liberal, President of the Treasury Board and Minister responsible for Infrastructure]

Mr. Speaker, the government is solidly committed to equal pay for work of equal value. We demonstrated that when after many years of failed attempts we were able to reach an agreement with the professional institute with respect to pay equity for nurses, dietitians, occupational and physical therapists.

In relation to the public service alliance, we have had some informal discussions to this point. I would welcome more formal negotiations to try to bring about a resolution of the matter.

We now have a new methodology as provided through this latest of negotiations. We are committed to continuing on the path of bringing about pay equity within the public service.

The Senate

[Daphne Jennings, Reform, Mission—Coquitlam, BC]

Mr. Speaker, following yesterday's announcement of two more patronage appointments to the Senate, has the Prime Minister completely abandoned any thought of having elections to the Senate? Has he forgotten his red book promises of openness and fair play on how we choose our political representatives?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, I was totally in favour of having elections to the Senate and the Reform Party opposed it when it voted against the Charlottetown accord.

We are naming senators in the other house to represent the party that forms the government. We are in a situation at this time where we have had a bill before the Senate for eight

months. It is being blocked by a party that received only 3 per cent support in the latest byelections.

I need some Liberal senators who will have more sense than the ones who are blocking legislation that is very important and in the interest of taxpayers so that we will not give more money to the people who made a deal-

[Some hon. members]

Hear, hear.

[Daphne Jennings, Reform, Mission—Coquitlam, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I remind the Prime Minister that the Charlottetown accord was a package deal with many flaws.

I also remind the Prime Minister that with provincial elections from time to time, in this case New Brunswick, the cost factor would be low and democracy is worth it.

Does the Prime Minister still find it revolting to offer the people of Canada a democratic vote on their choice of senator?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, it is a case where Reform Party members have thrown the baby out with the bath water. They did not realize what they were doing. They in effect blocked elections to the Senate. That is all. That is reality.

Now my prerogative is to name senators. It is a prerogative that I use and I name very good senators. The citizens who are selected always appreciate it very much. I remember very well the former Senator Manning.

Ethics

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, on Monday, the Minister of Canadian Heritage said, and I quote: "Mr. Beaudry is a very respectable person who does not engage in activities without first making sure that they are compatible with his duties".

My question is for the Prime Minister. How does he reconcile this statement made by his heritage minister and the admission by his personal ethics counselor, Mr. Wilson, that it was only after the fact that the chairman of the National Capital Commission consulted him?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, that question was answered yesterday. I am pleased to see that Mr. Wilson's opinion coincides with what we said in this House.

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister must have misheard my question on account of the noise, because I was actually telling him that Mr. Wilson said just the opposite of what the heritage minister had said.

I have a second question, a second chance, for the Prime Minister.

How can the Prime Minister reconcile the opinion given by his ethics counselor, his personal counselor who maintains that this behaviour is in compliance with the code of ethics, when section 33 of the Public Service Employment Act states, and I quote: "No deputy head shall engage in work for or against a political party"? I would like an answer.

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, there have been court rulings on this and I must add that the Quebec referendum is not a partisan issue, but an opportunity for every Quebec citizen to say whether or not he or she wants to remain in Canada. This is not necessarily a matter involving work for or against a political party.

I know full well that many people in the National Capital Region realize that separation would be disastrous for those who live on the Quebec side of this region, and I think that any citizen has the right to express an opinion on the future of his country without engaging in political partisanship.

Fisheries

[John Cummins, Reform, Delta, BC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Prime Minister. We understand that he is today in receipt of a letter from European Union president Santer regarding the turbot dispute on the east coast. Will he reveal the substance of the letter to the House and indicate what his response will be?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, I did not read from the communication. I said he expressed the view, as he did on the telephone, that we should reach a settlement very rapidly. He is giving instructions to his negotiator to do that very rapidly. I have given the same instructions to my negotiator. I hope we will find a solution very quickly.

[John Cummins, Reform, Delta, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I would have preferred a little more substance to the answer but I do appreciate it nevertheless.

The minister of fisheries has repeatedly stated Spanish vessels should not be fishing on the nose and tail of the Grand Banks. Given that the Spanish often fish in waters 800 to 2,000 metres deep, it is uncertain where the minister is drawing the line. Could he tell us where this line is drawn, the line beyond which it is okay to fish?

[Brian Tobin, Liberal, Minister of Fisheries and Oceans]

Mr. Speaker, the line is drawn in the water. It is approximately what is referred to as the 1,000 metre line on a NAFO map. The Spanish vessels know exactly where it is. It is the area where most of the fishing activity has gone on.

A CP wire story has just come into the House. I received a copy and sent a copy to the Prime Minister as he sat down from answering the first question. It says the president of the European Union is indicating they are prepared to propose a series of new measures in order to ensure this fishery is controlled effectively. It goes on to say the president of the EU is prepared to consider figures, quota-wise, lower than the autonomous quota they have already set.

These are indications in the right direction; these are steps in the right direction. We would like to see this matter resolved by discussion. We have said that from day one. We do not want to see negotiations, which have gone on for a number of days now, trashed because a handful of captains want them trashed. It is not in their interest to have effective enforcement measures, to have lower and reasonable quotas that will sustain the stock.

We are waiting to see what comes out of these next days of discussion. Canada will stand firm for conservation.

Rail Strike

[Bernie Collins, Liberal, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

Mr. Speaker, the farmers in my riding and right across Saskatchewan are watching with extreme anger as the members of the NDP and the Bloc hold up our settlement of the rail strike. Canada's reputation as a reliable supplier of grains and oilseeds is tarnished. We are in danger of losing our international markets.

The NDP and the Bloc refuse to co-operate for the good of our country. What will the minister of agriculture do for Canadian farmers?

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food]

Mr. Speaker, the full answer to that question could take several days but I will try to shorten the point because of the very serious issue before the House.

One week of lost rail service has the impact of holding up 500,000 tonnes of grain shipments through the Canadian Wheat Board valued at $83 million. When we add in the non-board grains the total goes up to very close to $100 million, plus $15 million in losses for domestic oilseed processors, plus another $5 million in losses for flour millers. The cost of that is in excess of $100 million for one week of lost rail service, not to mention the damage to our reputation as an international supplier.

The government wants the problem ended. We want it ended today. We implore the members of the NDP, who are so mouthy from the backbenches, and the Bloc to solve this problem now.

[Bill Blaikie, NDP, Winnipeg—Transcona, MB]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Prime Minister or perhaps the Minister of Labour.

The record will show, if truth matters at all in this place, that since early Monday morning it has been up to the Bloc and the government to settle this issue, not the NDP.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.