House of Commons Hansard #164 of the 35th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was budget.

Topics

Income Tax ActPrivate Members' Business

2:25 p.m.

Reform

Margaret Bridgman Reform Surrey North, BC

Mr. Speaker, I am very pleased to have been asked by my colleague from Port Moody-Coquitlam to present some aspects of our position in the debate on Bill C-247, an act to amend the Income Tax Act relating to child care expenses.

As stated earlier, the purpose of the bill is to amend the Income Tax Act to allow for the deduction of a fixed amount of $5,000 or $3,000 according to the age of the child, regardless of the income of the parents and the amount of child care expenses actually incurred.

The bill allows the deductions to be claimed by one parent, either parent where the child is living with both parents or each parent when the parents are living apart and the child spends some time with both parents. In the case when parents are living apart, the deduction would be split between the two parents according to the amount of time each parent spends with the child. The real purpose of the bill is to allow parents the freedom to choose the method of child care for their children.

Today's economic realities mean that the role of government has to be entirely rethought. Thirty years of more and more government social spending has only produced less and less security for Canadians. We in the House must face the challenge

of turning our welfare state into a secure society which requires a new philosophy of social security.

In discussing the issue of child support payments, it is best to lay out some principles and then determine if the bill adheres to the principles. There are five principles that we should be following in the debate.

The first one would be the self-reliance of Canadians and to recognize the family as the primary caregiver.

The second one would be to empower families, community and charitable organizations to play an increasing role.

The third one would be to focus social spending on the need.

The fourth principle would be to entrust resources and responsibilities to the level of delivery where it is most effective or decentralized.

The fifth would be to reduce spending and limit government spending.

On the first principle we must realize the increasing importance of families and their role in the nurturing of children and the viability of the economy.

Reformers support policies that allow families to be recognized as serving a unique and important role and to be given a choice in the method of child care their children receive.

There is a clear and fundamental philosophical difference between the Liberals and the Reformers on the whole child care and day care debate. Liberals believe in a state run day care and promised $120 million for day care in their red book, which incidentally was not met in the recent budget. This promise was essentially fuelled by special interest forces and would result in increased cost to all taxpayers. It is also an anti-family choice.

Reformers oppose a state run day care. We believe that day care is most efficiently run by the private sector and that government subsidization of day care, the nanny state, is not financially sustainable. In these views we are supported by a majority of Canadians who according to a recent Maclean's poll prefer to raise their children in the home. They also believe that parents must have the right of choice.

The second principle to follow is that a dollar left in the hands of a family is more effective, more efficient and more desired than in government programs. The present child care expense allowance is intrusive. It interferes with parental decision making by discriminating against those with families where one parent stays at home to raise children. The bill would empower families with a real choice.

The third principle is focusing on social spending on need. It may appear that the bill does not focus on need since the bill provides a deduction regardless of the income of the parents. It should be noted that the bill is intended to work within a flat tax system.

The fourth principle is to entrust resources and responsibilities to the level of delivery where they are most efficient and most effective. Under this principle it would be prudent to eliminate the child tax credit and replace it with a tax deduction.

Why should more money be sent to Ottawa, churned through the government bureaucracy and then funnelled back to Canadians? This results in less money being available to those who are really in need.

Under a tax reduction the parents would determine the best use for the money. They could apply it to their own needs. It would make them choose responsibly and they would see the direct result of the money.

The fifth principle the bill addresses is the reduction of government spending because the cost of a tax reduction would be offset by the elimination of the tax credit. The bill would allow parents to stay at home resulting in greater employment opportunities. There would be no need for a national day care program. Savings would also result because funding would be directly to individuals and families and not to institutions and professionals.

In conclusion, the bill recognizes that families are the best hope for a bright future and that healthy families, not dysfunctional types, are a source of strength for future generations.

The bill moves away from the folly of state run day care programs generated by special interest groups that favour government intervention and social engineering. We must rethink our responsibilities and our priorities.

Income Tax ActPrivate Members' Business

2:30 p.m.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Kilger)

The member for Calgary Centre had given an indication that he wanted a few minutes under right of reply.

The House must understand that no other member can speak after the member closes under right of reply. I hope he can do this in the matter of two to three minutes.

Income Tax ActPrivate Members' Business

2:30 p.m.

Reform

Jim Silye Reform Calgary Centre, AB

Mr. Speaker, there are two comments I would like to make, just to wrap up. When we heard from the Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Finance, basically he said that the program would cost an extra $6.5 billion.

I want it entered into the record that what he is not doing and has failed to recognize in my comments is that this bill would consolidate the current existing programs which add up to slightly over $8 billion and offset the cost of this program. Even if we use $6 billion as the cost, what he has failed to do in his budgetary planning is to recognize that those people who make $30,000 or more get $2.1 billion of the child credit out of that $5.2 billion. We must subtract that from the $6.5 billion.

With the lack of need to spend the $1.4 billion on future day care facilities, given that the present ones would be sufficient to handle the demand for the waiting list of 25,000 people, those would be additional funds that would be available. Although the Liberals now are not going to spend that money, which they promised they would in the red book. It looks like another broken promise from their election trail.

In summary, it is an important mathematical dollar item to consider. We have to consider whether the current system with six different ways of providing child care assistance in this country is sufficient. Is it meeting the needs of the people? My presentation today has shown sufficient cause for the need to address this. It is not sufficient.

There are some solutions. I have offered some. It may not be the total answer, but it offers a solution through consolidation and giving people the choice, helping to put the money in the families' hands and letting them decide how to spend that money. After all, they earned it in the first place. They should know better how to spend it, not the state and not funding institutions.

This government should consider a method of child care support and child care payments in its social engineering and its social package that would truly leave more money available for people. Let them have the choice. Also, reduce the overall cost. Despite what the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Finance said, if we consolidated this plan it would save this country $1 billion.

Income Tax ActPrivate Members' Business

2:30 p.m.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Kilger)

There being no further members rising for debate, and the motion not being designated as a votable item, the time provided for the consideration of Private Members' Business has now expired. Paper.

Income Tax ActPrivate Members' Business

2:30 p.m.

Reform

Jim Silye Reform Calgary Centre, AB

Mr. Speaker, I rise on a point of order. For those members present in the House, I would like to seek unanimous consent. I know this bill is non-votable and was deemed as such by the subcommittee. However, after due consideration by all members in this House, would the members give unanimous consent to make C-247 votable?

Income Tax ActPrivate Members' Business

2:30 p.m.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Kilger)

Is there unanimous consent?

Income Tax ActPrivate Members' Business

2:30 p.m.

Some hon. members

No.

Income Tax ActPrivate Members' Business

2:30 p.m.

Reform

Jim Silye Reform Calgary Centre, AB

Mr. Speaker, I rise on a point of order. I would like to move that the bill be not now read a second time, but because of discriminatory challenges to the Income Tax Act and Parliament's commitment to end child poverty by the year 2000, that the subject matter of the bill be referred to the Standing Committee on Human Resources Development and that accordingly the bill be withdrawn.

Income Tax ActPrivate Members' Business

2:30 p.m.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Kilger)

Is there unanimous consent?

Income Tax ActPrivate Members' Business

2:30 p.m.

Some hon. members

No.

Income Tax ActPrivate Members' Business

2:30 p.m.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Kilger)

Accordingly the order is dropped from the Order Paper. It being 2.40 p.m. the House stands adjourned until Monday, March 13, 1995 at 11 a.m., pursuant to Standing Orders 28 and 24.

(The House adjourned at 2.39 p.m.)