Debates of March 3rd, 1995

Canadian Broadcasting Corporation

[Christiane Gagnon, Bloc, Québec, QC]

Mr. Speaker, Monday afternoon, heritage deputy minister Michel Rochon communicated to CBC president Anthony Manera the Cabinet's budget decisions for the next three years, I repeat, the next three years.

Does the Minister of Canadian Heritage continue to deny that budget decisions have been made concerning the CBC's fate in the next three years? If not, does this mean that he has once again failed to honour one of his commitments, namely to provide the CBC with multi-year funding?

[Michel Dupuy, Liberal, Minister of Canadian Heritage]

Mr. Speaker, I think that our hon. colleague still does not understand the difference between a budget decision and the program review. It would seem this is where the confusion stems from. I have publicly explained these matters both in and outside this House.

[Christiane Gagnon, Bloc, Québec, QC]

Mr. Speaker, how can the minister justify logically and rationally his decision to strike a committee of wise men and women to look at the CBC's mandate, after giving members of Parliament the mandate to do just that last August?

[Michel Dupuy, Liberal, Minister of Canadian Heritage]

Mr. Speaker, our colleague does not seem to grasp too well what was referred to the heritage committee. Had she done me the courtesy of listening, perhaps she would understand better. This may explain why the hon. member and her colleagues never understand anything: they do not listen.

I think that our colleague has a gift for telling the future. We had not yet outlined how we intend to review not only the CBC's mandate, but also that of the National Film Board and Telefilm Canada. This means she will have to wait for the review mandate to be clearly spelled out. I can assure her that it will not be the same as the mandate given the House of Commons heritage committee.

[Elwin Hermanson, Reform, Kindersley—Lloydminster, SK]

Mr. Speaker, it is time to clear the air on the CBC issue.

On Tuesday the Minister of Canadian Heritage stated that the president of the CBC resigned for personal reasons, but last night Mr. Manera directly contradicted the minister. He resigned not for personal reasons but because the minister has secret and specific plans for cuts to the CBC over the next three years.

Given that the budget is a three-year document and given that we have a copy of the minister's plans precipitating the president's resignation, how can the minister justify not coming clean with Canadians about his plans regarding the CBC?

[Michel Dupuy, Liberal, Minister of Canadian Heritage]

Mr. Speaker, I am asked to deal with two issues in the question, one on the motivation of Mr. Manera's resignation. I am not speculating about the motivation for his resignation. He can speak for himself.

As to the second matter, I think I have been clear in the House. The budget contains some indication for the next fiscal year. It is 4 per cent which amounts to $44 million. The figures for the second and third year are derived from the program review.

[Elwin Hermanson, Reform, Kindersley—Lloydminster, SK]

Mr. Speaker, it seems very odd that the president would resign if that in fact were the case.

When budgetary information is withheld from Canadians, it creates uncertainty and confusion. In this case, it has caused the resignation of the president of the CBC who accused the minister of failing to disclose the information to Canadians about future cuts to the CBC. The minister denies it. They cannot both be telling the truth.

Since this is the second time the minister has placed himself in a compromising position, will he clear the air and promptly submit his resignation to the Prime Minister.

[Michel Dupuy, Liberal, Minister of Canadian Heritage]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to know where our colleagues in Reform are coming from. One day they say they want to destroy the CBC. They want to privatize it. They do not want to see it any more.

I stand here saying we will defend the CBC. It will be a strong institution. It will be on the information highway and we are not going to have privatization. This is what I stand for.

Money Laundering

[Michel Bellehumeur, Bloc, Berthier—Montcalm, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Justice.

Yesterday, we learned that the RCMP's lack of co-operation with Swiss authorities had resulted in the release of two Canadian nationals who had been charged with money laundering and detained for six months in Switzerland.

Today, for the second time in a year, the U.S. State Department indicated that Canada is one of the countries where money laundering is most prevalent and easiest to do.

Since Canada is truly a sieve when it comes to money laundering, what is the government waiting for to legislate and put an end to that illegal activity?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, with the ease of international money transfers, money laundering by the underworld is a concern for all industrialized nations.

Through the inference of the Solicitor General, Canada is collaborating with other nations around the world to form a united front against this insidious threat to our economic security and, frankly to our laws against crime.

The Solicitor General, through his collaboration with the United States of America and European nations, is working closely with authorities abroad to take effective steps to deal with money laundering in Canada.

[Michel Bellehumeur, Bloc, Berthier—Montcalm, QC]

Mr. Speaker, as was confirmed yesterday, the Canadian government is certainly not co-operating with Swiss authorities. I also urge the minister to read the U.S. State Department's report. It has plenty to say about this issue.

Does the minister realize that, because of the lack of legislation, each year $10 billion are being laundered in Canada, and does he realize that his failure to act only encourages such illegal activity?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, with respect to the incident referred to by the hon. member, the reports also indicate that action has been taken. We are collaborating with authorities abroad to make sure that effective steps are taken in that case.

In so far as legislative change is concerned, we believe that the legislation in place at present is sufficient to meet the challenge. As I have said in the past, the Solicitor General, working with other nations, is taking effective steps to make sure that happens.

Employment

[John Williams, Reform, St. Albert, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the minister of public service renewal acknowledged that job cut decisions based on race or sex are illegal under the charter of rights and freedoms.

Yet he indicated that government personnel managers might turn a blind eye to the charter and it is more likely that minorities will keep their jobs when the government implements public service cuts.

Will the minister acknowledge it is his duty, like every other Canadian, to respect and abide by the charter of rights and freedoms?

[Marcel Massé, Liberal, President of the Queen's Privy Council for Canada]

Mr. Speaker, it is very easy to indicate exactly what the facts are before questions are asked.

The newspaper quotes me verbatim as saying: "Mr. Massé said he had been assured workers' rights will be respected. The charter of rights indicate when you are doing a restructuring in industry you have to designate your surplus workers on totally objective reasons,' he said.You cannot use equity reasons of that type in order to designate them".

That indicates exactly what was said. It is totally in conformity with the charter of rights and with our policies.

[John Williams, Reform, St. Albert, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the minister is trying to obfuscate the problem because the charter of rights does not allow discrimination based on sex and gender and that is exactly what he has said in the article.

Will the minister confirm that he will give specific direction to government personnel managers to abide by the charter of rights and freedoms and tell them that employment equity plays second fiddle to the charter of rights and freedoms?

[Marcel Massé, Liberal, President of the Queen's Privy Council for Canada]

Mr. Speaker, I do not give orders to directors of personnel. That is something deputy ministers in departments do.

The member opposite has to recognize that in this case we will apply the rules as we normally do.

The Budget

[Jean-Guy Chrétien, Bloc, Frontenac, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is directed to the Acting Prime Minister.

In its budget, the government intends to spend $3.5 billion to compensate Western grain producers for eliminating the Crow subsidy which totals nearly $600 million annually. This compensation will be a direct incentive for the diversification of agricultural production in Western Canada.

Considering current budgetary constraints, how can the Liberal government justify replacing a grain transportation subsidy of $560 million with financial compensation and guarantees totalling $3.5 billion?

[David Walker, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, a number of actions were taken on the agricultural front dealing with both the WGTA and the dairy subsidy. I remind hon. members these are two different agricultural sectors. We had a question from the Reform Party yesterday from a different perspective.

We are working with each of these communities to make sure that we do things properly. The dairy subsidy is being approached in an entirely different way than the grain transportation subsidy. As we work our way through the communities we will continue making announcements to make sure these subsidies are both reduced and properly looked after.

[Jean-Guy Chrétien, Bloc, Frontenac, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I may recall this is a ratio of 6 to 1. How can the Liberal government justify this inequity which deprives Eastern producers of any form of compensation, although they will be the first to suffer as a result of competition from Western farm producers who are being subsidized by the federal government to diversify their production?

[Lyle Vanclief, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Agriculture and Agri-food]

Mr. Speaker, I would remind the hon. member for Frontenac that the changes made to the Western Grain Transportation Act are one time and final. As of August 1 this year the western grain transportation support will be over and done with. The dairy support-it is one of the hon. member's concerns-will still be 85 per cent in place as of August 1, 1995.

The changes we have made to the agriculture and agri-food budget have been fair and equitable. They will be effective.

I would also remind the hon. member that Quebec has not been unduly affected by the budget. If I look at the changes in the research branch, the reduction in staff in the province of Quebec at the end of all this-

[The Acting Speaker (Mr. Kilger)]

Order.

[Karen Kraft Sloan, Liberal, York—Simcoe, ON]

Mr. Speaker, the Reform Party, in criticizing the budget and management of the economy, has been speculating that Canada will not be able to sustain the economic growth rate required to meet the deficit target.

Would the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Finance provide the doom and gloomers on the other side of the House with real facts and figures on Canada's economic growth?

[David Walker, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, I welcome the opportunity the question from the hon. member for York-Simcoe gives me to tell the House that the economy is coming along quite well.

Statistics Canada said this week that the economy has improved and that we have had the fastest growth rate in five years. It was 4.5 per cent throughout the year. For the first time in 40 years we are now competitive with the United States on every measure. That is why our exports are driving the economy.

Most important-and all members of the House will appreciate this-finally consumer confidence is growing. With a 7 per cent increase in retail sales I believe every Canadian feels he or she is participating in the renewal.

Pensions

[Jim Silye, Reform, Calgary Centre, AB]

Mr. Speaker, let us not forget what we have learned today, that the Liberals now define spending cuts as a better way of doing things.

The Liberals' two-tier pension plan through trough regular and trough light will continue to make millionaires out of defeated cabinet ministers. On Monday, the President of the Treasury Board acknowledged that members of Parliament contribute double what is normal in the private sector to their own plan. He said that in the House.

How can the Liberal government justify this double standard of asking Canadians to sacrifice while most ministers continue to stuff their mattresses?

[Art Eggleton, Liberal, President of the Treasury Board and Minister responsible for Infrastructure]

Mr. Speaker, it is funny that members of the third party talk about

stuffing mattresses. They do not say anything about double dipping, even though a few of them understand it quite well.

The cuts we announced in the budget of 19 per cent over the next three years are very substantial cuts. In one year, we cut the MP contribution by 33 per cent. On top of that, salaries of members of Parliament have been frozen for six years. Therefore the compensation package overall for members of Parliament has been going down.

It has been going down to help meet our deficit reduction targets, to help get our fiscal house in order.