House of Commons Hansard #219 of the 35th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was sentencing.

Topics

Cn Commercialization ActGovernment Orders

12:55 a.m.

The Speaker

Is there unanimous consent for the member to propose the motion?

Cn Commercialization ActGovernment Orders

12:55 a.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

Cn Commercialization ActGovernment Orders

12:55 a.m.

Bloc

Michel Guimond Bloc Beauport—Montmorency—Orléans, QC

Mr. Speaker, I will try to proceed as quickly as possible.

You will know that the firms Scotia McLeod, Nesbitt Burns and Goldman Sachs have been hired to co-ordinate the sale of CN shares at the international level. The purpose of this amendment is to ensure that CN remains under Canadian control, since it is Canadian taxpayers' money that was used to build it. That is what our amendment is all about.

I can tell you that, in the transport committee, I was very disappointed that the syndicate of the three companies responsible for launching the issue of shares refused to answer my questions, and in particular a very legitimate question asking what their fee for this operation would be. I think the taxpayers of Quebec and Canada have the right to know how much Scotia McLeod, Nesbitt Burns and the U.S. firm Goldman Sachs will be paid to launch the new issue of CN's shares.

The question was perfectly legitimate, but I was told this was confidential information that could not be divulged. I want to say that the answer is unsatisfactory.

I had other very pertinent questions for which I did not get any answers either. I will read a few to the House. I had 21 of them. For instance, I asked:

What are the prospective financial statistics for CN upon which the sale price will have to be based? I am interested in the following for the years 1990-95 through 2000. I wanted to know the operating cash flow, the free cash flow after capital spending but before dividends, operating income and the net income.

I had all kinds of questions to which I received no answer. I asked them, for example:

What is your estimation of the value of land and other real estate property?

I received no answer. That is why I am very concerned about the fact that the new privatized CN could fall under foreign management when taxpayers in Quebec and Canada have made such a major contribution to the development of this company.

Cn Commercialization ActGovernment Orders

1 a.m.

Bloc

Paul Crête Bloc Kamouraska—Rivière-Du-Loup, QC

Mr. Speaker, I will also be very brief. I just want to explain to hon. members what the consequences are of adopting or defeating this amendment.

I would like to provide some historical background. Certain choices were made in the course of Canada's history and one was that the railroad would go from New Brunswick through Eastern Quebec and then to Ontario. These decisions also led to the introduction of transportation subsidies to compensate for the fact that the distance was greater than it would be through the United States.

If we do not adopt the amendment before the House today, we might easily land in a situation where American interests would be able to buy or get a controlling interest in CN and thus be able to close down certain parts of the line for the benefit of American lines, in other words, the routes through the United States.

This is true in Eastern Canada and also in Western Canada. I think that if we do not watch out, 25, 30 or 35 years from now we will realize we made a strategic mistake that will cost Quebec and Canada dearly. In the past, we saw that Quebec was adversely affected as a result of certain choices made with respect to railway routes. The amendment before the House today would prevent this kind of situation.

Incidentally, a Canadian group would not be prohibited from owning more than 15 per cent of CN shares. This might give Quebec interests a chance to ensure that in the future, the entire railway network in Quebec is harmonized with the road network. That is why this amendment should be passed.

Cn Commercialization ActGovernment Orders

1 a.m.

Bloc

Osvaldo Nunez Bloc Bourassa, QC

Mr. Speaker, even though it is late, I would like to say just a few words, because I think this is a very important subject.

I support this motion and it is important, because when the Liberals were in the opposition, they were more nationalist and Canadian in their outlook than they are today. I think they defended the interests of Canadians better than they are doing now. Today, that is history. I think some people in this country are apprehensive about the foreign interests that might control CN.

The very fact of selecting Goldman Sachs in New York does not augur well, as far as I am concerned, and that is why I want to support this motion which I think is very important.

Cn Commercialization ActGovernment Orders

1 a.m.

London East Ontario

Liberal

Joe Fontana LiberalParliamentary Secretary to Minister of Transport

Mr. Speaker, I want to take a couple of minutes to address the amendment and a very fundamental question here.

First, let me indicate there is no evidence in other countries where privatization has taken place of foreign takeovers. In fact, to protect against any individual gaining control of CN, as has been indicated, a 15 per cent individual ownership restriction has been imposed.

Moreover section 8 of the enabling legislation protects against investors colluding to control the company by combining the voting power of their shares. To insert such an amendment into the bill would negatively impact on both the value of the shares as well as what the government would receive and hence the Canadian taxpayer.

I do not believe we need to take any lessons from the Bloc Quebecois in protecting Canadian interests. The government wants to maximize the return for Canadians in this national railroad and does not need any lessons from them on how to build good national railways.

Let me also take this opportunity to assure my friend in regard to the question he asked about fees. Obviously they will be made in due course. I believe he also heard of this global team that will offer these shares across North America and beyond, that is why this team was put together.

He also heard that our Minister of Transport has negotiated the best deal with regard to fees and they have complimented the hard bargain he drove. I assure members we will be getting good value for the fees from our global underwriters.

Cn Commercialization ActGovernment Orders

1:05 a.m.

The Speaker

We are now dealing with Group No. 7, Motion No. 17. Is the House ready for the question?

Cn Commercialization ActGovernment Orders

1:05 a.m.

Some hon. members

Question.

Cn Commercialization ActGovernment Orders

1:05 a.m.

The Speaker

Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion?

Cn Commercialization ActGovernment Orders

1:05 a.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

Cn Commercialization ActGovernment Orders

1:05 a.m.

Some hon. members

No.

Cn Commercialization ActGovernment Orders

1:05 a.m.

The Speaker

All those in favour of the motion will please say yea.

Cn Commercialization ActGovernment Orders

1:05 a.m.

Some hon. members

Yea.

Cn Commercialization ActGovernment Orders

1:05 a.m.

The Speaker

All those opposed will please say nay.

Cn Commercialization ActGovernment Orders

1:05 a.m.

Some hon. members

Nay.

Cn Commercialization ActGovernment Orders

1:05 a.m.

The Speaker

In my opinion the nays have it.

And more than five members having risen:

Cn Commercialization ActGovernment Orders

1:05 a.m.

The Speaker

Pursuant to Standing Order 76(8), the recorded division on the motion stands deferred.

The House will now proceed to the taking of the deferred divisions at the report stage of the bill now before the House.

Call in the members.

And the bells having rung:

Cn Commercialization ActGovernment Orders

1:05 a.m.

The Speaker

Pursuant to Standing Order 45, the divisions are further deferred to Monday, June 19 at 11.30 p.m.

Cn Commercialization ActGovernment Orders

1:05 a.m.

Saint-Léonard Québec

Liberal

Alfonso Gagliano LiberalSecretary of State (Parliamentary Affairs) and Deputy Leader of the Government in the House of Commons

moved:

That the House do now adjourn.

(Motion agreed to.)

(The House adjourned at 1.09 a.m.)