Debates of June 8th, 1995

Highways

[Randy White, Reform, Fraser Valley West, BC]

Mr. Speaker, this highway 104 scandal reminds me of the old chicken jokes like: "Why did the chicken cross highway 104?" The answer is: "To avoid the toll booth".

Now I find the Liberal member for Cumberland-Colchester is publicly proposing that a toll booth be put on the New Brunswick border of highway 104, a move that will surely start a toll booth war on the Trans-Canada highway between two provinces. This is very strange behaviour from a government, in fact a Prime Minister, who said this week it was a provincial jurisdictional matter.

Will the Deputy Prime Minister make an attempt to restore faith in the ethics of the Liberal cabinet by asking the Minister of Public Works and Government Services to at least step down until we hear from the auditor general about the minister's inappropriate activities regarding highway 104?

[Joe Fontana, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Transport]

Mr. Speaker, as the hon. member should know, tolls and highways are in the provincial jurisdiction. While the member has been going across Atlantic Canada suggesting the Reform Party is against tolls, perhaps he should check with his boss, who in New York City on May 25 indicated he is in favour of tolls and user fees for public infrastructure.

[Randy White, Reform, Fraser Valley West, BC]

Mr. Speaker, at least we have somebody answering for that fellow over there.

What we have across the room today is a government that has a lack of ethics, a lack of honesty and a lack of accountability, but there is no shortage of arrogance across there at all.

I have an anniversary present for the minister of public works. I will share a significant quote from our current illustrious minister of public works from Hansard exactly six years ago today, which proves just how adaptable these Liberals are. The quote reads:

I am opposed to pork barreling schemes which only benefit friends of Tories. That is what I am against.

He said that when he was in opposition.

I ask the Deputy Prime Minister if the minister of public works opposes pork barreling in principle, or just for Tories.

[Joe Fontana, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Transport]

Mr. Speaker, let me also give the hon. member a quote: "Instead of tax based financing, he suggested privatizing current public infrastructure tolls, public and private joint ventures". That was said by Preston Manning on May 26, 1995.

[The Speaker]

I will permit the parliamentary secretary to finish his answer, but we refer to each other by our constituencies rather than our names.

[Joe Fontana, Liberal, London East, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I apologize for using the name of the leader of the Reform Party, but it was the leader of the Reform Party who said that. It was on the CP news wire that he was in favour of tolls.

Highways are in the provincial jurisdiction and tolls are in the provincial jurisdiction. The Government of Nova Scotia decided that was where it wanted to spend the money to ensure safety and good transportation in Nova Scotia. That is where the decision lies, in Nova Scotia, not in the House.

Immigration

[Osvaldo Nunez, Bloc, Bourassa, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is directed to the Minister of Citizenship and Immigration.

Immigration officers at the Canadian embassy in Paris have once again refused to issue a visitor's visa to Algerians, in this case two grandmothers, Mrs. Ouartzi and Mrs. Sebbar. The House will recall the case of Mrs. Koudil, a filmmaker, and three Algerian actors who were denied visas at the embassy in Paris, although they had tickets for their return flight.

Would the minister agree that his officials at the embassy in Paris behaved deplorably, considering the way they handled legitimate requests for visas from people of Algerian origin, and why is nothing being done to correct procedures that obviously led to this unfair treatment?

[Sergio Marchi, Liberal, Minister of Citizenship and Immigration]

Mr. Speaker, I am unaware of the two cases involving the two grandmothers' applications for visitor visas. I hope the hon. member understands that I cannot be on top of every one of the one million applications that are made worldwide to visit Canada. I will certainly look into the cases.

However, I think the hon. member should check his language when he attributes motives to our visa officers. He comes from the province of Quebec, which essentially controls independent migration. The province of Quebec also has visa officers around the world. Is he suggesting for one moment that those officers are approving every single applicant, and if they do not, for legitimate reasons, that somehow those Quebec officers are doing the right thing?

What I believe we should be doing with respect to Algeria is not solving some of the problems those people are facing through our visitor visa program. That is precisely why my officials have been discussing with the officials of the Quebec ministry of immigration with respect to independent migration to see if we can help some of those Algerians legitimately, rather than trying to utilize the visitor visa program for things it was not intended for.

[Osvaldo Nunez, Bloc, Bourassa, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the visa officers I referred to work for your department.

[The Speaker]

I may remind the hon. member that he should always speak to the Chair.

[Osvaldo Nunez, Bloc, Bourassa, QC]

Excuse me, Mr. Speaker.

Since these two Algerian grandmothers, both over 65, have already been to Canada several times, when does the minister intend to admit his officials made a mistake and when are they going to issue visas to these women who want to come here to visit their children and their grandchildren?

[Sergio Marchi, Liberal, Minister of Citizenship and Immigration]

Mr. Speaker, I informed the member I would look into the two cases.

I know that officers who are looking at the visitor visa program are federal. What I was trying to draw to the attention of the member is that I do not hear him very often criticizing officials of the Quebec government when they refuse individuals.

I hope the member is not turning this into a political issue. He could also have stood in the House today and thanked the federal government for allowing the Garda family to go to New York City to make an application and not deport it to Romania, which allowed it to be accepted as independents, with the co-operation of the Government of Quebec.

I do not need any grandstanding from this member.

Code Of Ethics

[Deborah Grey, Reform, Beaver River, AB]

Mr. Speaker, whether it is the heritage minister's cash for contracts dinner in Montreal, the pork for pavement highway deal in Cape Breton, or the revenue minister's legal cases for cronies on the west coast, the ethics counsellor always seems to be the last one to know. Mr. Wilson is becoming more a political scapegoat than an ethics watchdog.

My question is to the Deputy Prime Minister. When was the ethics counsellor contacted about any of these violations of ethics, and why was he not consulted beforehand rather than after?

[Sheila Copps, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of the Environment]

Mr. Speaker, the member is assuming that there was a violation of ethics.

We have made it quite clear that the Liberal Party and the Prime Minister support public participation in the fundraising process. We have no problem with the fact that MacMillan Bloedel gave the Reform Party $10,000 last year. We would never suggest that a donation from MacMillan Bloedel or

Canadian Pacific or Imperial Oil had an influence on their policies.

It is a very open and transparent process. We support it. We think the public across the country believes that there should be public participation in fundraising. We do not accept that as a violation of any ethical standard.

[Deborah Grey, Reform, Beaver River, AB]

Mr. Speaker, it is ironic then that the Prime Minister said yesterday on page 13370 of Hansard , ``I discussed this with the ethics counsellor yesterday morning''. Why would that be necessary then?

It clearly states on page 95 of the Liberal red book that the government will appoint an independent ethics counsellor who will report directly to Parliament. Instead what we have is an ethics counsellor who rules on ethical issues after the fact and who reports only to the Prime Minister. It is yet another red book broken promise.

Given the ethics watchdog's obvious lack of teeth, will the Prime Minister honour the red book commitment and make the ethics counsellor responsible directly to Parliament, not to himself?

[Sheila Copps, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of the Environment]

Mr. Speaker, the ultimate person responsible for the ethics of the government is the Prime Minister of Canada.

Research And Development

[Reg Alcock, Liberal, Winnipeg South, MB]

Mr. Speaker, as Canada adjusts to the new knowledge based economy, those organizations who are the major producers of knowledge are struggling to find the resources to meet these new challenges.

The second largest commitment in the red book was the $1 billion commitment to research and development.

My question is for the finance minister. Why has there been a delay in implementing this promise?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance and Minister responsible for the Federal Office of Regional Development-Quebec]

Mr. Speaker, science and technology remains a very important priority for this government. It is the reason why very quickly after we were elected we did implement a number of our obligations: the technology partnerships program, the Canadian technology network.

This is why we look forward to receiving from the secretary of state and the Minister of Industry the science and technology review, which I understand we will be receiving within a matter of weeks.

There were in the budget a number of cuts. If we were to deal with our fiscal problem we had to deal with it frugally. Nonetheless, if we take a look at fisheries, agriculture, NRCan and industry, we will see that to the greatest extent possible we did preserve the research and development capacity of the government. There is a question-

[Jim Silye, Reform, Calgary Centre, AB]

Speech.

[Paul Martin, Liberal, LaSalle—Émard, QC]

Wait a minute. If the Reform Party is interested in the future of the country instead of in gutter tactics, it may well want to ask this kind of question.

There are some very important questions we should be asking. Should the government be funding those things that the private sector should do? Should the government in its R and D policy be operating fundamentally or at the margins? Should the private sector be counting constantly on the government? These are the future questions this country has to answer. Why is it that the Reform Party cannot deal with the real future of the country?

[Some hon. members]

Hear, hear.

Forestry Workers

[René Canuel, Bloc, Matapédia—Matane, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Natural Resources.

Next year, the federal government will make more than $20 million in cuts affecting private forestry in Quebec, thus penalizing thousands of forestry workers in the Lower St. Lawrence, Gaspé and North Shore regions. Participants in the private forestry summit held in Quebec last month demand that the federal government compensate producers.

I would like the Minister of Natural Resources to tell us what kind of compensation this government intends to give forestry workers?

[Anne McLellan, Liberal, Minister of Natural Resources]

Mr. Speaker, I find it only slightly strange that the hon. member and his party, who argue so strenuously for exclusive provincial jurisdiction in the area of forestry, should now suggest that the federal government pick up the tab for forestry.

Having said that, let me reassure the hon. member that my department and this government continue to wish to work co-operatively with my colleague, the minister of natural resources in the province of Quebec. I have written to the gentleman three times. I have offered to meet with him on a number of occasions. The door is always open to further co-operative ventures between our two governments. I await his call.

Ethics

[Jim Silye, Reform, Calgary Centre, AB]

Mr. Speaker, for a second there I thought the finance minister was running for the leadership again.

The Liberal red book is beginning to read like Mulroney, the next generation. Patronage, pork barrelling, pensions, and punishment are the same buzzwords that live on with this Liberal government.

Can the Deputy Prime Minister explain how she and her government can claim to have any integrity when cabinet ministers are untouchables and backbenchers are treated like kindergarten kids when they step out of line?

[Sheila Copps, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of the Environment]

Mr. Speaker, on December 20, 1994, a decision was made by the Reform Party to remove as their justice critic the member for New Westminster-Burnaby. At that time, the hon. whip who has just posed the question came to the government and asked us if we would sign the appropriate papers. We did so because we felt that was a decision of his party and we respect democracy.