House of Commons Hansard #228 of the 35th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was taxes.

Topics

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11:35 a.m.

Reform

Myron Thompson Reform Wild Rose, AB

Madam Speaker, once again we are seeing some proposals we cannot support.

Bill C-45 is an attempt by the government to try to show Canadians that it is going to look at deterrence and punishment as kind of paramount to rehabilitation. It was a feeble attempt I might add, but at least it was an attempt.

Then along come the separatists and their ideas. Believe me, if you think the Liberals are left wing or bleeding hearts or whatever else you want to call them, the Bloc far exceeds that. This is another example of these kinds of motions: How dare us in Canada make such a scene over heinous criminals and crime. Deterrence and punishment is not how we operate in Canada; it is rehabilitation and prevention. Agreed, but let us make them paramount.

Madam Speaker, when you cross that line of breaking the law, it is time to punish. And I hope the punishment will cause a deterrent, because a deterrent is one of the best methods of prevention.

I congratulate the government members a little bit. The reason I congratulate them a little bit, only a little bit, is because that is all they have attempted to do, only a little bit. Tinker around, make the people think we are really going to do something about this, that we are going to get tough, and then along comes the Bloc saying: "No, no, no, we cannot be so cruel and harsh to our criminals".

I am at a loss for words for people with that attitude. I sure would like them to come to my riding of Wild Rose and stand before crowds there, anywhere they want to go, and announce these wonderful new ideas. They will not sell.

Corrections And Conditional Release ActGovernment Orders

11:40 a.m.

Liberal

Patrick Gagnon Liberal Bonaventure—Îles-De-La-Madeleine, QC

I will go.

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11:40 a.m.

Reform

Myron Thompson Reform Wild Rose, AB

I will welcome the parliamentary secretary. I welcome him to come out. It is an invitation. You want to sell my people in Wild Rose all your wonderful solutions to crime? You are welcome and good luck. If you think I am loud, wait until you get out there.

The whole point is we have to get the message out to criminals: You will be punished severely if you commit these kinds of heinous, violent, dangerous crimes. We have to get that message out. That is what Canadians are asking for when you see capital punishment polls all across the country, all in favour, everywhere you go, 70 per cent to 75 per cent everywhere. But no, we cannot get the message. Besides, we are Parliament, we know better. We are smarter than the rest of Canadians. Hogwash and baloney. They do not know what they are talking about.

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11:40 a.m.

The Acting Speaker (Mrs. Maheu)

Is the House ready for the question?

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11:40 a.m.

Some hon. members

Question.

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11:40 a.m.

The Acting Speaker (Mrs. Maheu)

The question is on Motion No. 24, which will include Motions Nos. 25 and 26.

Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion?

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11:40 a.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

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11:40 a.m.

Some hon. members

No.

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11:40 a.m.

The Acting Speaker (Mrs. Maheu)

All those in favour of the motion will please say yea.

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11:40 a.m.

Some hon. members

Yea.

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11:40 a.m.

The Acting Speaker (Mrs. Maheu)

All those opposed will please say nay.

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11:40 a.m.

Some hon. members

Nay.

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11:40 a.m.

The Acting Speaker (Mrs. Maheu)

In my opinion the nays have it. I declare the motion negatived. I therefore declare Motions Nos. 25 and 26 negatived as well.

(Motion No. 24 negatived.)

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11:40 a.m.

The Acting Speaker (Mrs. Maheu)

We are returning to debate on group 6, which is Motion No. 16.

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11:40 a.m.

Reform

Myron Thompson Reform Wild Rose, AB

moved:

Motion No. 16

That Bill C-45 be amended by adding after line 19, on page 28, the following new Clause:

"45.1 The Act is amended by adding the following after section 132:

"132.1 Where the Board, under section 130 or 131, orders the statutory release of an offender who was convicted of a sexual offence involving a child, the Board shall provide the offender's name and date of release for inclusion in the registry referred to in subsection 132.2 (1).

132.2 (1) There shall be kept in the automated criminal conviction records retrieval system maintained by the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, in a registry kept separate and apart from other criminal records, a record of every conviction for a sexual offence involving a child, which record shall include a ) the name of the person convicted of the offence and the person's address, if any, at the time of the conviction; b ) the section of the Criminal Code under which the person who committed the offence was convicted; c ) the details that describe the manner in which the person convicted of the offence committed the offence; d ) the date that a person convicted of a sexual offence involving a child is to be released on statutory release pursuant to an order made by the Board under section 130 or 131; and e ) any other information that may be prescribed by regulation.

(2) All the information included in a record kept in the registry referred to in subsection (1) shall be made available to a peace officer who is investigating a sexual offence involving a child where the officer requests such information.

(3) Where a person is convicted of a sexual offence involving a child, the police force responsible for the investigation of the offence shall provide a record of the offence, which shall include the information referred to in paragraphs ( a ), ( b ), ( c ) and ( e ), for inclusion in the registry referred to in subsection (1).''''

Madam Speaker, here we go again. Welcome to law and order land.

I know most of the members of this Parliament know or remember a certain person. They will remember her from the past. Her name is Monica Rainey. She worked hard for a group called CACE which had to fold because it was not supported by government funds like some other bleeding heart societies are. She could not afford to keep going.

A major aspect of her fight was to do all she could do in Canada to protect the children in this country, the youth, from sexual assaults, abuse, et cetera.

Monica Rainey came to this building a number of times with armloads of petitions calling for the government to do such things as create a registry of all violent dangerous individuals so when they were released and on the streets people would know who they were.

She packed wheelbarrow loads of petitions and letters. All members received letters supporting what she was trying to do. I will be willing to bet a dollar to a doughnut that when we finish explaining why there should be a registry the old Liberal strings will be pulled and the backbenchers will be like puppets and jump up and oppose it because it is something we do not do in Canada. We could not dare put a child molester or a dangerous violent offender who hurts children on a list so the public would know who this person was. He might happen to be your nextdoor neighbour. We do not do that. Perhaps the charter of rights will not allow us to.

There have been other documents from the Liberal government that have caused more chaos. I am not sure which ones but some have caused all sorts of things not to happen to protect people. There is only one explanation for not wanting a registry of individuals who are a threat to our society. It should not be limited to children. However, my party and I will settle with that for now although we would like a lot more. Why in the world should the parents of our young children not know who these people are?

I am a grandfather and I have some little ones. I am disgusted with a government that does not try to help me protect them. The bleeding hearts over here sound like nothing more than cats-psst, psst-which is all they are good for.

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11:45 a.m.

Reform

Randy White Reform Fraser Valley West, BC

They would rather spend time talking about separation.

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11:45 a.m.

Reform

Myron Thompson Reform Wild Rose, AB

They would rather spend time talking about separation than protecting children. That is more important to them.

Canadians are fed up. The Liberals do not think so but I know so. Talk to any parent who has lost a young child. They would like to have known that neighbour or that fellow at the end of the street had the potential to do that. It might really have helped.

We are steadily losing more and more faith in the justice system. I will be perfectly honest. If anyone hurts my little child please let me have them, do not give him to the bleeding hearts.

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11:45 a.m.

Liberal

Herb Dhaliwal Liberal Vancouver South, BC

Vigilante.

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11:45 a.m.

Reform

Myron Thompson Reform Wild Rose, AB

No that is not being a vigilante. That is being a grandfather who really cares for the security of his grandchildren. I would like to see some kind of action from the government that will say yes, let us make sense. Why not help parents and grandparents to protect the young people of our country? No, that interferes with the rights of criminals. I am sick and tired of hearing about the rights of criminals. That is all we ever hear. Not once do we hear about the rights of victims, only about the rights of criminals. It is so far outweighed it is sickening.

I hope when these bleeding hearts get back into their constituencies the people will send them a loud and clear message for such things as setting up a registry of people who are on the streets and have the potential to hurt our kids. Setting up that registry makes perfectly good sense and would help make our country a better, safer place to live, a good old red book promise.

Come on, get with it. Quit being a bunch of deadheads and start thinking about what is really right. Is the cabinet pulling the strings and will members be jumping up and voting no against this motion as well?

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11:50 a.m.

Bonaventure—Îles-De-La-Madeleine Québec

Liberal

Patrick Gagnon LiberalParliamentary Secretary to Solicitor General of Canada

Madam Speaker, I was no fan of the Grateful Dead.

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11:50 a.m.

Reform

Art Hanger Reform Calgary Northeast, AB

Is that supposed to be funny?

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11:50 a.m.

Liberal

Patrick Gagnon Liberal Bonaventure—Îles-De-La-Madeleine, QC

I think the language used in the House has been at times unparliamentary and the people from Wild Rose expect more from their member.

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11:50 a.m.

The Acting Speaker (Mrs. Maheu)

In the past we have heard many comments on decorum in the House and many comments that the public is tired of seeing the House reacting in this manner. I ask that we have order, please.

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11:50 a.m.

Liberal

Patrick Gagnon Liberal Bonaventure—Îles-De-La-Madeleine, QC

Madam Speaker, I appreciate your intervention. This is a civil forum and it allows elected members from various parts of Canada to exchange in a civil and correct manner.

I also thank the hon. member for Wild Rose for his kind invitation to his constituency. I would be more than pleased to have a civil exchange with the hon. member and with his constituents on various issues of concern to the people.

The motion, which we will oppose, was raised during a clause by clause review by the Standing Committee on Justice and Legal Affairs. The motion was ruled out of order because it entailed expenditure of funds and I believe cost saving measures are in order.

However, the hon. member failed to recognize one of the major accomplishments of the government, the establishment of the Canadian police information centre, CPIC, announced in November 1994. I assure the hon. member and his constituency and all Canadians that CPIC basically provides a comprehensive registry, including an offender's entire criminal history and additional information such as whether an individual has a restraining order, a peace bond or is prohibited from working with children.

We have had a number of cases in which in minor hockey leagues or when certain adults are called to supervise children, the organizations have access to this information. We encourage all volunteer service organizations in which children are involved to contact CPIC to make sure the people willing to lend their help are within the law and would not pose any danger to innocent children.

The motion in question is unnecessary. It would otherwise be inappropriate for inclusion in a bill which deals with corrections and conditional release.

Corrections And Conditional Release ActGovernment Orders

11:55 a.m.

Reform

Randy White Reform Fraser Valley West, BC

Madam Speaker, I will speak to Motion No. 16.

It is interesting that my colleague from the Liberal Party spoke about ruling one of the motions out of order for lack of funds. This is the government in the process of spending $6 billion on infrastructure. This is the government which allows convicts, regardless of their conviction, to pick up old age security, the Canada pension plan and GST rebates. The government wants to move the motion out of order because it calls for an expenditure of funds. That is laughable.

On a registry of sex offenders, the amending motion of my friend from Wild Rose is right. I would have the registry circulated throughout the country to all individuals, not just enforcement officers. It is about time we did that.

I know Germaine is watching this. She is from my riding. If Germaine were in the House she would likely not hold back on a lot of the comments she has. Germaine was involved with a victim of Alan Winter. He molested, as far as we can find out in my riding thus far, in excess of 30 children over a number of years. They were young kids. He undertook the most heinous activities with these kids, which I shall not describe in the House.

What do we do with Alan Winter? After Germaine took him to court a number of years ago we put him in prison and labelled him a dangerous offender. That means he should stay in prison for quite a long time. Along came more victims of Alan we did not know about and they tried to press charges, only to find out that after five years Alan Winter was let out unbeknownst to anybody. We also found out Alan Winter was on unescorted passes while labelled a

dangerous offender. No one knew the predator was crawling through the streets of our communities.

Where did he go? Good old Alan, courtesy of Canada, went to Britain. Interestingly enough a deal was made and he has dual citizenship and can return to Canada. There is no registry. Very few people know what he looks like. We have pictures of him. They are up on my office wall and they may well go in my householder.

I want to read a letter from John Denham, an MP of Southampton, England, about this case:

I am grateful for the assistance which you have given in providing details of the parole conditions attached to the release of Mr. Alan Winter.

As you may know, we in Southampton recently became aware that Mr. Winter was living in our community. People in Southampton were appalled to learn that he has served only a small part of a lengthy sentence imposed for appalling acts against children. They were equally concerned to learn that those agencies responsible for child protection had no knowledge of his presence in this city.

The information which you have provided confirms that Mr. Winter was released from prison on condition that he leave Canada and that he would be in prison once again if he returned to your country.

That is actually not the case. He is a citizen of both countries and can return to Canada. The letter continues:

I will of course be raising this matter with the British government's home, foreign and commonwealth offices. I will be asking them to make strong representation to the Canadian government to ensure that a situation like this can never arise again and that there is a clear agreement between two countries on the international application of parole conditions.

I would be grateful if you could make every effort to raise my concerns and those of my constituents in the Canadian Parliament. I believe that if Mr. Winter was not fit to be released into Canadian society he was not fit for release into my country either and I hope that you can express this view in the appropriate way.

No one in this country knows really what he looks like. There is no registry. This guy is filthy scum. He has ruined the lives of countless young men and women. Today they are around the age of 40. I have met with six of them in a room. Their lives are ruined. There is not even a registry on this guy.

Some people are doing some things. Sandra Cunningham looks after the tri-city child care guide. I have spoken with Sandra many times. She has taken it on herself to put in this child care guide the pictures and MOs of these predators, these pedophiles. She is doing it at her own cost, her own risk.