House of Commons Hansard #109 of the 35th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was c-42.

Topics

Government Response To PetitionsRoutine Proceedings

10 a.m.

Fundy Royal New Brunswick

Liberal

Paul Zed LiberalParliamentary Secretary to Leader of the Government in the House of Commons

Mr. Speaker, pursuant to Standing Order 36(8), I have the honour to table, in both official languages, the government's response to five petitions.

And, Mr. Speaker, I move:

That the House do now proceed to the Orders of the Day.

Government Response To PetitionsRoutine Proceedings

10 a.m.

The Speaker

Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion?

Government Response To PetitionsRoutine Proceedings

10 a.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

Government Response To PetitionsRoutine Proceedings

10 a.m.

Some hon. members

No.

Government Response To PetitionsRoutine Proceedings

10 a.m.

The Speaker

All those in favour of the motion will please say yea.

Government Response To PetitionsRoutine Proceedings

10 a.m.

Some hon. members

Yea.

Government Response To PetitionsRoutine Proceedings

10 a.m.

The Speaker

All those opposed will please say nay.

Government Response To PetitionsRoutine Proceedings

10 a.m.

Some hon. members

Nay.

Government Response To PetitionsRoutine Proceedings

10 a.m.

The Speaker

In my opinion the yeas have it.

And more than five members having risen:

Government Response To PetitionsRoutine Proceedings

10 a.m.

The Speaker

Call in the members.

(The House divided on the motion, which was agreed to on the following division:)

Government Response To PetitionsRoutine Proceedings

10:45 a.m.

The Deputy Speaker

I declare the motion carried.

(Motion agreed to.)

Point Of OrderRoutine Proceedings

10:45 a.m.

Bloc

Michel Bellehumeur Bloc Berthier—Montcalm, QC

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to see you in the Chair, because you were present yesterday.

I would like a clarification regarding what happened during debate on the Reform Party's amendment to the amendment with respect to Bill C-42. As you will recall, it was during the period for questions and comments and I still had time remaining when the government whip presented a motion to extend the sitting, pursuant to Standing Order 26.

You entertained the motion, Mr. Speaker, and a number of things then happened. One was that you deemed that a motion to adjourn the House had been moved pursuant to Standing Order 38.

You then asked if the House was ready for the question, on what it was not clear. There were cries of "question" from both sides and you set the vote in motion. You will recall that I hurried over to the Table and, at the first opportunity available to me, raised a point of order.

My point of order concerned the fact that the government whip's motion to extend the sitting was out of order. I will read the last paragraph only of the Speaker's ruling on this motion, in the hope that this will enlighten the Chair.

In view of the fact that the matter was a procedural motion and that it was proposed at a time contrary to the Standing Orders, the Chair is of the view that the motion is indeed out of order and has not been adopted.

My question today is whether, if we step back and you have immediately declared the government's motion out of order, I would still be in the period for questions and comments. Or whether, given my brilliant answers, for no one else had any questions to ask me, you would have called for debate to resume and not gone on to the vote.

I therefore think that everything that occurred between the time the government whip's motion was ruled out of order and the time that the Chair confirmed the motion out of order was illegal. Accordingly, the vote on the Reform Party's amendment to the amendment concerning Bill C-42 is illegal and should never have been held.

I would like you, Mr. Speaker, to shed some light on this, for I believe that the custom of the House would have dictated that, following the government motion, you should have said very clearly-and this should have been recorded in Hansard , which it was not-questions and comments'' orresuming debate''. You did not do so, probably through omission, or because government members were speaking very loudly and were in a hurry to vote in order to gag us.

Mr. Speaker, I ask you to rule on this question.

Point Of OrderRoutine Proceedings

10:50 a.m.

The Deputy Speaker

I thank the hon. member for Berthier-Montcalm. This is a very interesting point. I have reread yesterday's Hansard . On page 6813, I said: ``Is the House ready for the question?'', but the hon. member for Berthier-Montcalm, with all of his legal background, did not take that opportunity to speak.

I find this a very interesting point, but since we are both lawyers, the hon. member ought to be prepared to admit that that was when he ought to have spoken up.

The Speaker cannot be changed in mid-stream, but in this case, I believe there is nothing more to say.

Point Of OrderRoutine Proceedings

10:50 a.m.

Bloc

Gilles Duceppe Bloc Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC

Mr. Speaker, I am not a lawyer, but that does not prevent me from understanding.

Point Of OrderRoutine Proceedings

10:50 a.m.

Some hon. members

Hear, hear.

Point Of OrderRoutine Proceedings

10:50 a.m.

Bloc

Gilles Duceppe Bloc Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC

I even think these things are easier to understand when one is not a lawyer. When you asked the House if it was ready for the question, the great majority of people-and yourself, I am

sure-understood that it was on the motion of the Government Whip, which was later deemed out of order.

Normally a debate ends with a motion. That was what the House answered yea or nay on, not the amendment to the amendment. You ought to have asked: "Are there any questions or comments?" If no one rises, then you ask if the House is ready to vote on the amendment to the amendment, and not on the motion of the Government Whip.

Point Of OrderRoutine Proceedings

10:55 a.m.

The Deputy Speaker

On the good advice of my counsel, dear colleagues, this is what I asked:

Is the House ready for the question?

Point Of OrderRoutine Proceedings

10:55 a.m.

Some hon. members

Question.

Point Of OrderRoutine Proceedings

10:55 a.m.

The Deputy Speaker

The question is on the amendment to the amendment. Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the amendment to the amendment?

Point Of OrderRoutine Proceedings

10:55 a.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

Again, I suggest that that would have been the time for the hon. member beside you to speak. Since he did not, I believe that, unfortunately, the matter is closed.

Judges ActGovernment Orders

10:55 a.m.

Saint-Léonard Québec

Liberal

Alfonso Gagliano LiberalMinister of Labour and Deputy Leader of the Government in the House of Commons

Mr. Speaker, I move:

That in relation to Bill C-42, an Act to amend the Judges Act and to make consequential amendments to another Act, not more than one further sitting day shall be allotted to the stage of consideration of Senate amendments to the bill and, fifteen minutes before the expiry of the time provided for government business on the allotted day of the consideration of the said stage of the said bill, any proceedings before the House shall be interrupted, if required for the purpose of this Order, and in turn every question necessary for the disposal of the said stage of the bill shall be put forthwith and successively without further debate or amendment.

Judges ActGovernment Orders

10:55 a.m.

The Deputy Speaker

Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion?

Judges ActGovernment Orders

10:55 a.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

Judges ActGovernment Orders

10:55 a.m.

Some hon. members

No.

Judges ActGovernment Orders

10:55 a.m.

The Deputy Speaker

All those in favour will please say yea.