Debates of Dec. 5th, 1996

Excise Tax Act

[Madeleine Dalphond-Guiral, Bloc, Laval Centre, QC]

Mr. Speaker, on a point of order. Would the House agree to call it 5.30 p.m.?

[The Acting Speaker (Mr. Milliken)]

Is there unanimous consent for calling it 5.30 p.m.?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

The House resumed from November 22, 1996, consideration of the motion that Bill C-297, an act to revoke the conviction of Louis David Riel, be read the second time and referred to a committee.

An Act To Revoke The Conviction Of Louis David Riel

[Jean H. Leroux, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I am honoured and humbled by this opportunity to speak to Bill C-297, the purpose of which is to revoke the conviction of Louis Riel for high treason.

When I studied the history of Quebec and Canada, one of the saddest events was undoubtedly the conviction and subsequent execution of Louis Riel.

Members will recall that this happened shortly after Canada became a confederation, the Canadian Confederation, at a time when it had decided to expand its borders.

It was feared that the Americans, who had just bought Alaska, would take possession of western Canada and that Canada, as it existed at the time, would not be able to connect with British Columbia, a new province at the time, to form a country.

As is often the case, the whole issue started with a deal between Canada and the Hudson's Bay Company. In order to extend its territory, Canada reached an agreement with that English company, for a certain amount of money. There were individuals living in western Canada in those days, but they were mostly Metis. They had formed a people. John A. Macdonald's central government wanted to retain control at any cost.

Louis Riel is a great Canadian, a great patriot, a man who fought for his people and his language in that environment. Louis Riel heard the cry of his people and defended them. We all remember that Louis Riel was born in St. Boniface, on October 22, 1844. He was born in western Canada. His father, Louis Riel, was a Metis, and his mother, Julie de la Gimonière, was the first daughter to be born in a family of white settlers in western Canada. In 1858, he studied at the Montreal seminary, so he knew French very well. Then he went back home. They say he did not have the calling to be a priest, even though he came from a very religious family.

In those days, the federalists, the Ottawa centralists, wanted western Canada to remain a territory, under the control of Ottawa, for as long as possible. People who lived in that region did not agree. Louis Riel founded Manitoba as we all know.

The Ontario Anglo-Protestants wanted to see Louis Riel hang. Louis Riel surrendered in 1885. After several battles, he surrendered on May 15, 1885. His trial was riddled with irregularities, everybody agrees on that. The trial was held in Regina and the jury was made up of six English speaking jurors.

Had the trial been held in Winnipeg, the outcome would have been different. In Winnipeg the jury would have consisted of six French speaking jurors and six English speaking jurors. At that time Manitoba was already a province.

In Winnipeg, the presiding judge would have been a Supreme Court judge, whose independence is guaranteed by law. The Regina judge could be removed at any time by the federal government, and that government wanted Riel's head.

On November 16, 1885, at the age of 41, Louis Riel,a hero of the Metis people, was hanged. In December, after much effort by his family, his body was moved to Saint-Vital, in Manitoba, and buried in the cemetery of St. Boniface cathedral. Less than a week after the hanging, on November 22, 1885, a crowd of some 50,000 gathered on the Champs-de-Mars in Montreal and demonstrated. This was the start of the two solitudes in Canada.

While people in Ontario were delighted because a common criminal had been executed, the Premier of Quebec, Honoré Mercier, was saying in Montreal: "Our brother, Louis Riel, is dead". There were riots in Montreal, despite the fact that people were very religious, strong believers. There were riots and speeches. The government had been asked to show mercy, but hed refused. Even the six jurors had said: "Guilty, yes, but we request clemency". They were ignored.

This sad event was probably the beginning of the end of the good relations between the two founding peoples of Canada. In 1867, the Fathers of Confederation and the others who seemed to agree soon realized that Canada had misled them, because it was expected at that time that the new territories, the new future provinces would be bilingual. We know this is not what happened.

Now, rights are given when it may be too late. But, at that time, Honoré Mercier of Quebec, and people believed that Canada would be bilingual.

In concluding, I would like to read you the last letter that Louis Riel wrote before he died. This is Louis Riel's will. Of course, I will read it to you, and we have to go back to that time to fully understand that Louis Riel held no grudges.

This is Louis Riel speaking: "May my burial be simple. May it be attended by the comforts of religion. Far from me, far from my mortal remains are the desires for revenge, the reprisals. I forgive those who have committed so many injustices against me. I pray that my heart will be filled with the perfection of forgiveness and that all my trespasses will be forgiven, as I forgive all my enemies,

my adversaries, my opponents, my antagonists of all allegiances who trespassed against me. I therefore name Reverend Father Blais André as executor of my wishes as to my burial, so that my body may be carried through his care to the hospital to be laid in state, and from there to St. Boniface, to be buried beside the beloved remains of my dear beloved papa. May my body rest beside his".

And it is signed: Louis David Riel.

This is an injustice done a very long ago. But I think that, when a society has the courage to admit the errors of the past, that society is progressing. Louis Riel was undoubtedly the founder of Manitoba. He was a man who left his mark on his time. He was a man who fought against the government in Ottawa, a centralizing government even in those days.

I think that, today in this House, we, on all sides, must recognize the greatness of that man, the man who defended francophonie in America.

[Shaughnessy Cohen, Liberal, Windsor—St. Clair, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I am honoured to have the opportunity to speak on this private member's bill. While I very much support the idea of honouring Louis Riel and would be happy to participate in ceremonies and other ways of honouring this great man, I do not support the premise of this bill.

Many Canadians do not appreciate that Louis Riel was an educated man. He was educated in theology and in law. He was fluent in English, French, Greek and Latin. He was an eloquent and polished orator and a statesman who directed the negotiations with the Government of Canada on the entry of Manitoba and the Northwest Territories into the Dominion of Canada. Louis Riel, in spite of what the Bloc seems to suggest to us, was a great believer in Canadian unity and in one country which would include, of course, the province of Quebec and the western provinces. I take great pleasure in addressing the House on this very important issue. I believe that all members of the House would agree that Louis Riel made an important contribution to the building of this great nation.

The government has not ignored the importance Louis Riel has played in our nation's development. We have taken steps to advance the interests of Metis and off reserve aboriginal people and to honour Louis Riel's place in history.

The Constitution Act of 1992 recognizes the existing aboriginal and treaty rights of the Metis. The government has issued commemorative stamps to honour Louis Riel, through the Social Sciences and Humanities Research Council of Canada it has funded the publication of the collective writings of Louis Riel which was published in 1985 by the University of Alberta Press to commemorate the anniversary of the North West Rebellion.

On March 10, 1992, the House of Commons passed a special resolution honouring Louis Riel as a founder of Manitoba and recognizing his contribution to the development of western Canada and, therefore, to the development of the entire country. This resolution recognized the unique and historic importance of Louis Riel.

The government has funded cultural performances over the years, including the very successful Batoche Days in Batoche, Saskatchewan. That festival has been held annually for over 25 years in memory of Louis Riel.

In May of this year a statue of Louis Riel was unveiled in Winnipeg on the grounds of the Manitoba Legislative Assembly. The statue was funded by the federal government. It is situated along the Assiniboia River, just west of the fork where the Assiniboia and Red Rivers meet. This is a perfect spot for a statue commemorating Riel, a statue that I visited recently when I was in Manitoba. He was a founding member of western Canada and these two rivers represent the major trading routes to the west.

The Minister of Foreign Affairs and member for Winnipeg South Centre, when unveiling the statue, proudly announced Louis Riel as a father of Confederation for all Canadians. The Metis people can be proud of Louis Riel's accomplishments. We cannot and will not forget the importance place of Louis Riel in Canadian history.

This place is not diminished by his conviction. He is remembered as a builder of our nation. He had a vision of the proper place of Metis people and other people who settled in the west in Confederation. He represented all people of the west. He directed the negotiations with the Government of Canada of the entry of Manitoba and the Northwest Territories into the Dominion.

Many things have already been done and there are many more positive things which can be done to carry on the work started by Louis Riel. Discussions will continue with the Metis through existing processes such as the bilateral process with the Metis National Council and the tripartite self-government negotiations with Metis organizations at the provincial level.

I cannot accept the premise on which this bill was put forward by the hon. member for Rimouski-Témiscouata, when she asserted the Louis Riel was hanged: "because he was a Metis, because he was a francophone and because he stood up for a distinct society". This statement and the sentiments behind the tabling of this bill do not do justice to the memory of Louis Riel. They are incompatible

with this purpose and to use his memory as an excuse to stir the pot in terms of national unity is in my view, unacceptable.

Louis Riel was not only an eloquent, articulate defender of Metis rights, but he was a defender of the rights of all members of the community, including aboriginal, non-aboriginal, anglophone and francophone. He defended the rights of all people. Louis Riel did not just defend the rights of his own group, of the Metis. He championed the rights of all minorities as well.

Riel would not agree with the premise behind the tabling of this bill and we should find other methods to honour the memory of Louis Riel. We must look for solutions with the support of the Metis people of Canada.

Louis Riel had a vision of a unified country in which all people would participate equally. Along with the Metis people, we will continue the work of Louis Riel in ensuring that all people are equal members have an equal say in our society. When we contemplate honouring Louis Riel we must keep in mind the society that he fought hard to protect, a society where all people would live in shared dignity and mutual respect.

I urge the government to continue to work closely with Metis leaders and the family of Louis Riel to find appropriate and meaningful ways to celebrate his contribution to Confederation.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Verchères, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I am very pleased to rise in this House today to speak to Bill C-297, an act to revoke the conviction of Louis David Riel.

The Bloc Quebecois is once again addressing this issue in the House because we believe it is crucial to resolve the historical injustice sullying to this day the memory of Louis David Riel. It is important to put an end to the paradox surrounding the status of Louis Riel.

In fact, still today, in 1996, Riel legally remains a criminal who was sentenced for high treason in 1885. But at the same time, the House of Commons recognizes Riel as one of the Fathers of Confederation, since unanimously passing a motion on March 10, 1992.

I think we have to render to Riel what is Riel's. Quebecers and Canadians must be made aware of Riel's initiatives, since they reflect the courage and the will of this man to fight for the basic rights of his people.

Of course, this bill will not bring Louis Riel back to life, but justice would have been done, because after being sentenced for high treason by a kangaroo court, Riel was hanged in November 1885, at the age of 41.

Hon. members will have to agree that we cannot in all decency acclaim Louis Riel as a national hero while ignoring his ignominious conviction for high treason that has yet to be revoked.

If I could, I would like to give the hon. members some historical background so they can better understand the scope of the injustice done to Riel. By reviewing the 1885 events, we can see how important this conviction was for the relations between central and western Canada.

First, it is, of course, important to realize that the majority of those who were called Metis at the time were a mix of aboriginal people, coureurs de bois, employees of the fur companies and European-born trappers who had as their main characteristics the fact that they were French speaking and Catholic.

Representing more than 80 per cent of Manitoba's total population in the 1870s, the Métis had their way of life disturbed by the arrival of successive waves of settlers from the east. With the help of an unscrupulous Conservative government, these new settlers kept the best lands for themselves and took political control of the whole region.

From that moment on, the Métis started to mobilize against the invader. They followed a man known for his commitment to the cause of the Métis people. That man was Louis David Riel. Riel, who had studied law and had been secretary of a national Métis committee in 1870, was known for having worked on the establishment of a list of rights that set out the terms for Manitoba's entry into the Canadian Confederation.

Confrontations between Ottawa's envoys and the Métis people culminated with the death of a land surveyor killed by order of a national council then headed by Riel. The militant Anglo Protestants never forgave Riel for that.

However, in Quebec, Riel became a mythical figure, a hero and a defender of the French culture and the Catholic faith.

Despite being exiled, Riel was elected to this House for the first time in 1873 in a byelection and was re-elected in 1874. He was expelled from the House by means of a motion brought forward by an Orangeman. That was the start of many years of wandering, depression and confinement for Riel.

I want to say this because our goal is not to change or correct history, but to show all the nuances that will help people better understand our history. Louis Riel did not lead an exemplary life. Like everybody else, he made mistakes. In March 1885, in a last attempt to defend the rights of the Métis people, he and his men rose up in arms to form an interim government in Batoche and demanded the surrender of Fort Carlton.

After a battle that lasted a few months, he was forced to surrender. He was executed in November 1885, and his execution gave rise to the heated debate that is still going on today and created a very deep gap between francophones and anglophones.

The francophones who had strongly supported Riel demonstrated against the decision, which they considered revolting. Over 50,000 Montrealers, a third of the city's population at the time, took to the streets of centre town to express their outrage.

But the harm was done: by putting the Metis leader to death, the central authorities of the day had managed to silence the claims of a whole nation. These details are important, especially in view of the 4,000 page report just released by the Royal Commission on Aboriginal Peoples.

It contains recommendations relating to Metis claims. In the fourth volume, on page 244, the commissioners recommend actions aimed at preserving and developing the Metis culture which is becoming extinct. Considered today as being among the poorest of aboriginals in Canada, the Metis have no territory nor political representation. Seen in that perspective, the elimination of Louis Riel certainly allowed the Canadian authorities of the day to reach their despicable goal.

This injustice to Louis Riel must be put right. Let us remind the Liberals who are now the government that the Liberal leader of the time, then the Leader of the Opposition, Sir Wilfrid Laurier himself, had supported Louis Riel and the cause he was standing for. He stated, and I quote: "If I had been on the shores of the Saskatchewan river, I too would have raised my rifle."

The status of Louis Riel is so ambiguous today that even the Department of Canadian Heritage has recognized him as a person of national historic importance since 1956. He is described in the records of that department as "Metis leader, the Father of Manitoba, and leader of the Northwest rebellion in 1885". But in the eyes of the law, he is still a traitor.

In 1985, the one hundredth anniversary of Riel's execution, several leading political figures in the House and in the Senate spoke, and I would like to quote some of their remarks. Liberal senator Joseph-Philippe Guay said: "Riel has become a symbol, first of a linguistic and cultural minority whose rights to survive have long been ignored and are, to this day, still in jeopardy-"

Senator Guay acknowledged: "Riel was not beyond reproach", but he added: "If we remember him today, it is because the fight to which he devoted his whole life is largely still ours today".

In 1985 also, the present heritage minister and Deputy Prime Minister made a statement on this occasion. I quote from the November 28, 1985 of Hansard :

-I now ask that this Conservative Government exonerate the victim of the conspiracy of another Conservative Government-Letters and diaries of the participants and observers indicate unethical tactics to obtain political benefits from the rebellion-The reason for the Macdonald Government's promotion of a common riot to a full blown rebellion was to win additional funding for the near bankrupt Canadian Pacific Railway. Louis Riel, who died unnecessarily, deserves to be exonerated by the Government and recognized as a victim of wrongdoing.

That is what the current Deputy Prime Minister of Canada said.

Today, the Minister of Canadian Heritage and Deputy Prime Minister has to face up to the principles she was advocating then, since her party now forms the government. If the government is really serious in wanting to act to settle the Riel issue once and for all, as a great number of members tried to do throughout the history of this country, it must do so now.

I want to reassure members of all sides that the only reason the Bloc Quebecois introduced this bill today is to put an end to this injustice, to give this House an opportunity to be consistent and to allow Louis David Riel to finally rest in peace, more than 110 years after his death.

Since Riel was hanged, Liberals, Conservatives, New Democrats as well as Bloc members have spoken in this House to have Louis Riel's conviction revoked.

Concerning this bill that we introduced today, we were very sad to read all the news reports, and the letters which were brought to our attention.

Mr. Speaker, I am anxious to clarify for everyone that the Bloc Quebecois has not proposed this bill in order to make partisan political gains. Nor is this an attempt to rewrite history according to one bias, ignoring everything else. No, the objective of Bill C-297 is simple. It is to clear the name of Louis Riel and give him the recognition he deserves.

Consequently, I urge all members of this House to support Bill C-297. The ambiguity surrounding this Metis leader has existed for too long now. Now is the time to give him the recognition he deserves for being the hero he was and still is.

Too many young people are still learning in school that Riel was nothing more than a rebel and an outlaw. This is tragic and appalling. This great man, who helped found Manitoba and defended the rights of his people, will get the recognition he truly deserves in the history of this country only if we revoke his conviction.

[Lee Morrison, Reform, Swift Current—Maple Creek—Assiniboia, SK]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to speak as a westerner for a few moments about Louis Riel.

A lot of people do not realize that Louis Riel was born in the west and spent most of his life in the west and that he was a staunch federalist, which makes me wonder to some extent why members

of the separatist party in the House are taking this opportunity to press their motion.

He was not a violent man but was caught up in the whirlwind of events that were beyond his control. Actually he partially controlled them. Had it not been for Louis Riel's influence on Gabriel Dumont, there would have been a lot more deaths in the north-west rebellion. It was Riel who restrained Dumont from using guerrilla tactics against Middleton's troops. On that basis alone, the man should have been shown more mercy and compassion when he was tried.

There is no question that the trial was unfair. However that was 110 years ago. I do not believe that any good purpose is served by this attempt to fudge over one of the darker episodes of our history. It happened. It is over. I would take this same attitude to any historical event. It serves no purpose. It does not help Louis Riel in any way for us to stand in this House and say he was not guilty. The deed was done. History is history. I think there are other things that this House could attend to.

[Peter Thalheimer, Liberal, Timmins—Chapleau, ON]

Mr. Speaker, it is with pleasure that I respond today to Bill C-297.

Bill C-297 would revoke the conviction of Louis Riel and that is why I support the bill. History has shown that the conviction of Louis Riel was wrong in law and it was wrong in fact.

Let me say at the outset that I view Louis Riel as an important contributor to Confederation. His conviction for high treason in 1885 has been the subject of controversy for many years. Louis Riel was an important figure in the development of our country and to the nation that it is today. He worked endlessly for the Metis people of the west. He also worked for all settlers of the territories that have now become the provinces of Manitoba and Saskatchewan in our fine country.

During the late 1870s to the mid-1880s the west was going through significant changes. Aboriginal people, English speaking and French speaking Metis, and many other settlers from various parts of the world resided in the west. These people of diverse backgrounds banded together to advance their request to the government for the maintenance of their rights. These settlers felt that either there was no response to their needs or the response was too slow. Occasionally similar feelings are advanced by various organizations and groups even today.

They were right to believe that the government of the day was slow in responding to the requests of the residents of the west who asked for reasonable matters to be addressed, such as appropriate surveys for their settlements, improved transportation so they could move products to and from markets, and other useful services normally provided by a government to its citizens.

The French speaking and English speaking Metis, along with the settlers of many nationalities, sent numerous petitions and delegations to Ottawa to ask the government to carry out its responsibilities. After what the people of the west viewed as many years of neglect and without recourse against the encroachment of others, the people asked Louis Riel for his assistance in negotiating with the government.

Eventually the Metis of the west led by Louis Riel took action to secure their interests. Several military expeditions were dispatched to the west by the government which led to an unfortunate turn of events and indeed loss of life. As we know, Louis Riel eventually was hanged.

Riel was an eloquent and articulate defender of Metis rights as well as those of all members of the community, whether aboriginal, non-aboriginal, anglophone or francophone. Louis Riel was an educated man. He was fluent in English, French, Greek and Latin. He was once a polished statesman who directed the negotiation with the Government of Canada on the entry of Manitoba and the area then known as the North-West Territories into the Dominion of Canada.

Under the leadership of Louis Riel the Metis of Red River adopted a list of rights in 1870. It is important to recall that this list of rights was the primary basis upon which Louis Riel guided the negotiations with the Canadian government for the entry of the territories into the Dominion of Canada.

Louis Riel negotiated the terms for the admission of Rupert's Land and the North-Western Territory into the Dominion of Canada. A delegation of three was sent by the provincial government to Ottawa to present the terms to the Canadian government. This list was essentially the terms of union and formed part of the Manitoba Act.

The list provided for guarantees for Metis people who were then in the majority, including schooling and religious rights as well as recognition of the French and English languages. The rights of other citizens were also clearly set out. This was Louis Riel's vision of a united country with each citizen participating on an equal basis.

After the province of Manitoba entered into Confederation the citizens of the riding of Provencher in the province of Manitoba elected Louis Riel on three occasions by acclamation to the House of Commons. Because of the circumstances, Riel was unable to take his seat in this House.

Louis Riel devoted his life to the interests of the Metis people. He understood their concerns. He had a vision of the proper place for the Metis people and other westerners within Confederation. These people blended together to advance their request to the government for the maintenance of their rights.

In introducing the bill, the hon. member commented that Riel was hanged because he was Metis, because he was a francophone and because he stood up for a distinct society. That was not Louis

Riel. If he were here today I do not believe he would agree with that statement.

Louis Riel stood for equal rights for all Canadians. He believed that the Metis were entitled to equal rights and full participation within Confederation. The Metis at that time in history formed a substantial part of the population. Louis Riel championed for the rights of the minority groups. He would be saddened today by the divisive approach taken by members of the Bloc on this issue.

Louis Riel's contribution to this country has been recognized by the government over the years in a number of ways. I support the efforts of the government in seeking ways to recognize his positive achievements.

[Translation]

[Paul Crête, Bloc, Kamouraska—Rivière-Du-Loup, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to take this opportunity to recall that in Kamouraska-Rivière-du-Loup, in a house that belonged to Sir John A. Macdonald, we can see the telegraph on which the telegram was sent to order the hanging of Louis Riel. The telegram said simply: "Hang Louis Riel".

Today, the House of Commons has an opportunity to make amends for this blot on our history, and I hope we will make it unanimous.

[The Acting Speaker (Mr. Milliken)]

Is the House ready for the question?

[Some hon. members]

Question.

[The Acting Speaker (Mr. Milliken)]

Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[Some hon. members]

No.

[The Acting Speaker (Mr. Milliken)]

All those in favour will please say yea.

[Some hon. members]

Yea.

[The Acting Speaker (Mr. Milliken)]

All those opposed will please say nay.

[Some hon. members]

Nay.

[The Acting Speaker (Mr. Milliken)]

In my opinion the yeas have it.

And more than five members having risen:

[The Acting Speaker (Mr. Milliken)]

Call in the members.

And the bells having rung:

[The Acting Speaker (Mr. Milliken)]

Is there unanimous consent to defer the division until Tuesday at 5.30 p.m., after Government Orders?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Acting Speaker (Mr. Milliken)]

Is there unanimous consent that we call it 6.30 p.m.?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

A motion to adjourn the House under Standing Order 38 deemed to have been moved.