Debates of Nov. 26th, 1998

Apec Inquiry

[Herb Gray, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, I think we must wait for the federal court to make its ruling.

I think that the hon. member has asked a question that is not relevant right now.

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, what is not relevant is that we were told today that the solicitor general would be here, but he is being kept under wraps. They do not want him to say anything, so he is still absent from the House. That is what is not relevant, to use his word.

[The Speaker]

As we all know, it is not permitted to comment on the absence or presence of a member in the House. I would ask that this not happen again during oral question period.

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, everyone knows that the RCMP commissioner is appointed by the government and reports to the solicitor general, who is himself appointed by the government.

What makes the Deputy Prime Minister think that one or the other of them could blame the Prime Minister? It is ridiculous and no one believes it.

[Herb Gray, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member has made an inaccurate statement.

RCMP commissioners do not report to the solicitor general. He plays no role, except that of receiving the report. The commission is independent, as set out in the legislation passed by this parliament.

[Michel Gauthier, Bloc, Roberval, QC]

Mr. Speaker, in order to fend off the accusations that he suspended the civil liberties of the Vancouver APEC summit protestors, the Prime Minister is counting on the RCMP public complaints commission, the mandate of which, according to him, should allow everything to be brought out into the light of day.

How can we trust in the commission's ability to investigate, when François Lavigne, one of the investigators, confirms that it is not independent and that he was frequently asked to change reports prejudicial to the RCMP?

[Herb Gray, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, the commission has been in operation for ten years. From all reports, it has a very good record, and I believe we must let it do its work, though obviously under the aegis of the federal court.

[Michel Gauthier, Bloc, Roberval, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the former solicitor general ought to be exactly the right person to know that, in its ten years, the commission has never had to investigate the behaviour of a prime minister, as it is going to have to this time.

How could this commission of inquiry into police conduct feel comfortable investigating the behaviour of the Prime Minister, when he goes so far as to publicly prevent his solicitor general from speaking to journalists, by taking his arm and leading him away? What kind of message on ethics is the Prime Minister sending to the members of this commission of inquiry?

[Herb Gray, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, when calling public hearings into APEC last February, the commission stipulated that members must “examine all aspects of these complaints, hear all related testimony, ensure a fair and impartial hearing in relation to these complaints, and report the recommendations as authorized”.

It is obvious that the commission intends to do what is necessary.

[Alexa McDonough, NDP, Halifax, NS]

Mr. Speaker, like a wind-up toy the Prime Minister keeps saying let the commission do its work. He pretends that he wants Canadians to know the truth as quickly as possible.

Now the commission has shut down for six months. If the Prime Minister really wants Canadians to learn the truth, why does he not put an end to this Keystone Cops farce and appoint a full independent public inquiry now?

[Herb Gray, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, it has not been established that the commission will not be able to begin its hearings again for six months. That is speculation in the media. The federal court has not said when it will finish its deliberations on the allegations of bias.

My hon. friend has the premise of her question all wrong, as is usually the case with her questions.

[Alexa McDonough, NDP, Halifax, NS]

Mr. Speaker, it is just not working. The Prime Minister closed the commission because he knows it will not work. He knows it is fatally wounded. He knows the commission will never get to the truth.

Why does the Prime Minister not just admit that he will not appoint a full independent public inquiry because he does not want Canadians to learn the truth?

[Herb Gray, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member's assertion is totally wrong. The Prime Minister has said over and over again in the House that he wants all the facts to come out and he looks forward to the commission helping that to happen.

The commission is independent according to the law set out by parliament. I have said before and I say again that I appreciate her vote of confidence in the Prime Minister because she wants the person that she is attacking to set up the commission. I thank her again for the vote of confidence. For a change she has said something right. Of all the things she has said so far about which she knows something it is that the Prime Minister is a person of integrity and he—

[The Speaker]

The hon. member for Burin—St. George's.

Agriculture

[Bill Matthews, Progressive Conservative, Burin—St. George's, NL]

Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Agriculture has known for almost a year that farmers were suffering through one of the most severe financial crises in history.

Time is of the essence, but the minister chooses to take the let us wait and see approach. The minister now can see that farmers have to resort to destroying their livestock.

How many more farmers have to go bankrupt before the minister and the government find compassion and announce a comprehensive compensation package?

[Lyle Vanclief, Liberal, Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food]

Mr. Speaker, I certainly do not enjoy any more than anyone else the unfortunate situation too many producers are in now, and the unfortunate situation where some producers have had to choose to destroy their livestock or make them suffer.

For that very reason I am talking to my cabinet colleagues and talking to the provinces. We are going to do all we possibly can as quickly as we can. We will do it thoroughly and we will do it with the due diligence it needs to be given as we go through that process.

[Bill Matthews, Progressive Conservative, Burin—St. George's, NL]

Mr. Speaker, I say to the minister the time for due diligence is running out.

It is unfortunate that this government's lack of farming experience at the cabinet table is taking a toll on farmers across Canada. Farmers are going under while the Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food and the Minister of Finance quarrel over fiscal priorities.

Will the government prove that it has the will to support Canada's agricultural industry in this crisis? I ask the Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food, did he have enough clout at the cabinet table to announce an emergency aid program for Canadian farmers?

[The Speaker]

Colleagues, once again we are having a tough time hearing the questions and the answers.

[Lyle Vanclief, Liberal, Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food]

Mr. Speaker, if the hon. member wants to get personal, I will challenge him with the number of years that I have spent in agriculture.

I also challenge him in the renewed and refreshing interest that the Tory party has in agriculture. Prior to the last election the Tories said that they would continue and expand the practice of cost recovery in the areas of the food inspection and regulatory agency and then speed up the elimination of subsidies to take more than $6 million out of—

[The Speaker]

The hon. member for Medicine Hat.

[Monte Solberg, Reform, Medicine Hat, AB]

Mr. Speaker, when this minister left the farm, I would say he also left farmers behind.

Farm incomes in Canada have dropped 46% in the last year. We have seen user fees go up 28% in the last three years because of the finance minister and the agriculture minister. We see foreign subsidies going up. We see taxes going up.

When is the ag minister going to get tough with the Europeans and with the finance minister and make sure that those European subsidies start to go down and that Canadian taxes go down for farmers?

[Lyle Vanclief, Liberal, Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food]

Mr. Speaker, I know full well the difficulty that producers are in. That is why we are taking this seriously. We are working to put a plan in place that will assist those who are the hardest hit as quickly as we can.

When I go back to my riding on the weekends, which happens to be a farming community, I talk to farmers. I do not think the hon. member talks to too many on the weekends.

[Monte Solberg, Reform, Medicine Hat, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the minister has known for a year that this problem was coming. What is he doing today by going to cabinet to say all of a sudden we have problems? What took him so long to figure things out?

Why was he talking to farmers last weekend instead of over the last year? Why does he not come up with some long term solutions for farmers? What he is proposing simply is not good enough. We need long term solutions.

[Lyle Vanclief, Liberal, Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food]

Mr. Speaker, it is refreshing. The Reform Party has said for years that farmers should not have subsidies, that farmers should not have support and all of a sudden it now cares about farmers.

Apec Summit Inquiry

[Michel Bellehumeur, Bloc, Berthier—Montcalm, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the remarks made by Mr. Lavigne, the investigator who stated that the RCMP public complaints commission had neither the independence nor the means to do its job properly, have been confirmed by Pierre-Yves Delage, who, until March, was the commission's senior counsel.

In light of this development, is the commission, which is only an administrative tribunal, powerful enough to blame the Prime Minister and his office staff?