Debates of Feb. 25th, 1998

The Budget

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, I would simply say to the hon. member is helping 13 million Canadians lower their taxes not tax real relief? Is helping single mothers not real tax relief? Is helping students not real tax relief?

What constituency is the hon. member talking about? Who is he worried about?

We made it very clear. We are going to cut personal taxes and we are going to start with low and middle income Canadians. We will get to his friends later.

Presence In The Gallery

[The Speaker]

I draw the attention of hon. members to the presence in the gallery of my brother Speaker from the Saskatchewan Legislative Assembly, Mr. Glenn Hagel.

[Some hon. members]

Hear, hear.

[The Speaker]

I am going to hear at least three points of order and I am going to begin with the hon. member for Yorkton—Melville.

Points Of Order

[Garry Breitkreuz, Reform, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

Mr. Speaker, many people look to Hansard as being a fairly accurate record of the proceedings of this House. I am not sure if this is a point of order or a point of privilege. I will allow you to judge that.

But I would like to point out to you that I have checked Hansard last week and this week just to see how the remarks that I have been making have come through.

Last week in the debate on C-4, remarks that I did not make were attributed to me in the Hansard record and yesterday, in looking through this again, I note that I had an intervention. Following that intervention a response was made to what I had said by a Bloc member. None of that is recorded in here.

I bring that to your attention because I think there are many people out there that look to Hansard to be fairly accurate. I do not know what can be done about this, but I think it is something that should be looked into.

[The Speaker]

My colleague, I thank you for bringing that to my attention as you did earlier at the chair. If some error has been made I will see to it that (a) the Hansard blues are checked through and (b) we will refer to the audio which is on the television portion. If there is a correction to be made it will be made. It was inadvertent if it did happen.

On the same point of order, the hon. member for Langley—Abbotsford.

[Randy White, Reform, Langley—Abbotsford, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask if you would bring the results of that back to this House. I have heard concerns of this before, not just from this member. We would like a report back to the House, please.

[The Speaker]

Of course we are going to check it and we will see where it is. If it is an error, I guess we make some errors, but we will try to cut down on them as much as we can.

We will have a look at the blues and the television tapes and if indeed that was on there, if it is necessary, I will report back to the House.

I am going to go to point of order from the hon. member for Edmonton North.

[Deborah Grey, Reform, Edmonton North, AB]

Mr. Speaker, during Statements by Members today my colleague from Wild Rose said that he had spent the last four years touring around the country visiting prisons and then went on to make some comments about the prisons.

At that moment the member for Brampton West—Mississauga blurted out from her place “eating your way around the—” and then covered her mouth, realizing what she had said.

With regard to these vicious personal attacks, which are unnecessary, could she stand up and withdraw the comment?

[The Speaker]

In the heat of everything that was going on I did not hear the remarks. I do not know that they were made, but an hon. member has been named. The hon. member for Brampton West—Mississauga is here now. Perhaps she could clarify whether anything was said.

[Colleen Beaumier, Liberal, Brampton West—Mississauga, ON]

Mr. Speaker, instead of getting into a petty argument I would like to withdraw that comment.

[Don Boudria, Liberal, Leader of the Government in the House of Commons]

Mr. Speaker, earlier today, during Oral Question Period, you asked a member to withdraw his statement suggesting that a minister had said things that were untrue. That is what you asked the hon. member for Medicine Hat to do, and he did.

However, claiming to be quoting from a newspaper, another member, in this case the hon. member for Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, said basically the same thing about the Minister of Finance, still alleging that the words were not his but those of the reporter.

Paragraph 487.(2) of Beauchesne clearly states:

487.(2) Words may not be used hypothetically or conditionally, if they are plainly intended to convey a direct imputation—

In other words, whether his words were used hypothetically or borrowed from someone else, the hon. member for Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot does not have the right to use words the hon. member for Medicine Hat was forbidden to use, and rightly so.

So I suggest that you ask the hon. member for Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot to withdraw the words he used in reference to the Minister of Finance.

[The Speaker]

Members, of course, cannot quote from another person who used words they are not allowed to use in this House. I sometimes miss a word here and there, and I missed those. It happens. The hon. member for Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot is here. He was named.

Did he use a word suggesting that someone in this House lied?

[Yvan Loubier, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I simply read what Alain Dubuc wrote in the paper, namely that the Minister of Finance was so secretive about his budget, almost to the point of deception, or something to that effect. But it was a quote.

[The Speaker]

It is a very simple issue. As I said, we cannot use this word, even if it is from someone else, in this case a journalist. We cannot use someone else's words.

I would ask the hon. member to withdraw these words if he did use them.

[Yvan Loubier, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Mr. Speaker, while listening to you, I found the exact quote. I would not want to distort the statement made by Alain Dubuc, who is the editorial wrtier from La Presse . He wrote, yesterday, that “the minister is cautious to the point of becoming deceitful”. And if you ask me—

[The Speaker]

Even if it is from Mr. Dubuc, we cannot say this. I am asking the hon. member to withdraw this comment.

[Yvan Loubier, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I would not want to stir up controversy. We have better things to do. I withdraw these words. I could have replaced them by “Mr. Dubuc said—”

[The Speaker]

I thank the hon. member for his withdrawal. This is good enough for me.

Government Response To Petitions

[Peter Adams, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Leader of the Government in the House of Commons]

Mr. Speaker, pursuant to Standing Order 36(8), I have the honour to table, in both official languages, the government's response to three petitions.

Canada-Taiwan Parliamentary Friendship Group

[Paul Szabo, Liberal, Mississauga South, ON]

Mr. Speaker, on behalf of the 73 all party members of the Canada-Taiwan Parliamentary Friendship Group I am pleased and honoured to table our first ever report, in both official languages, in the House of Commons.

[The Deputy Speaker]

The hon. member will know that this organization is not an official delegation and therefore he will require unanimous consent of the House to table any such document.

Is there unanimous consent for the hon. member to table this document?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[Paul Szabo, Liberal, Mississauga South, ON]

Mr. Speaker, this report on bilateral trade and cultural affairs was prepared by our delegation to Taiwan from January 11 to January 17, 1998. It has been adopted by our membership and approved to be tabled in the House.

Petitions

[Nelson Riis, NDP, Kamloops, BC]

Mr. Speaker, it is my honour to present a petition pursuant to Standing Order 36.

The petitioners from the city of Kamloops and surrounding communities are concerned about the government's decision to pursue the multilateral agreement on investment and are against the MAI on principle.

They ask parliament to urge the government not to sign it.