House of Commons Hansard #68 of the 36th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was finance.

Topics

The BudgetGovernment Orders

4:15 p.m.

Reform

Ken Epp Reform Elk Island, AB

On a point of order, Madam Speaker. Are we then also going to put away those two flags on either side of the chair? If we take those out, I will go out and then we might as well all go out.

The BudgetGovernment Orders

4:15 p.m.

The Acting Speaker (Ms. Thibeault)

During a debate, the Chair may not give the floor to a member considered to be putting on a demonstration.

The BudgetGovernment Orders

4:15 p.m.

An hon. member

I have a point of order, Madam Speaker.

The BudgetGovernment Orders

4:15 p.m.

An hon. member

I too have a point of order, Madam Speaker.

The BudgetGovernment Orders

4:15 p.m.

The Acting Speaker (Ms. Thibeault)

Are the points of order about the same matter? The Chair has already ruled that there will be no flags, and that a member who keeps a flag on his or her desk will not be given the floor this afternoon.

The member for Broadview—Greenwood on a point of order.

The BudgetGovernment Orders

4:15 p.m.

Liberal

Dennis Mills Liberal Broadview—Greenwood, ON

On a point of order, Madam Speaker, I find this a strange approach from the separatists or from the Bloc Quebecois. The Speaker of the House of Commons made a ruling.

The BudgetGovernment Orders

4:15 p.m.

The Acting Speaker (Ms. Thibeault)

The ruling by the Chair has already been made regarding flags on desks.

We are now proceeding to questions and comments. I recognize the Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Finance.

The BudgetGovernment Orders

4:20 p.m.

Liberal

Tony Valeri Liberal Stoney Creek, ON

Madam Speaker, as he was wrapping up his presentation, the hon. member who was just speaking made numerous references to the budget, its benefits and the impact it will have for a number of years as we move forward.

Could the hon. member comment on the Canada education savings grant, which will provide a 20% top up for every dollar up to a maximum of $2,000 per year? Could he provide some indication to this House of what impact that grant will have for his constituents in particular but also for young people right across this country who would like to pursue further education in universities, colleges, vocational schools and technical institutes?

The BudgetGovernment Orders

4:20 p.m.

Liberal

George Proud Liberal Hillsborough, PE

Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. member for his questions. I said earlier in the day in my speech with regard to this fund that this is a way for Canadians to put money into education for their children. It is money that the government will contribute 20% toward. This money will allow an awful lot of Canadians who would not normally have access to education to have that access. It is a tremendous way—

The BudgetGovernment Orders

4:20 p.m.

Bloc

Stéphane Bergeron Bloc Verchères, QC

Madam Speaker, on a point of order.

In the spirit of the ruling you have just made, I recognize that the colleague now speaking does not have a flag on his desk, but it is clear that his colleague behind him, well within view of the cameras, does.

The BudgetGovernment Orders

4:20 p.m.

The Acting Speaker (Ms. Thibeault)

A few moments ago, the Speaker of the House told everyone here that he was going to consider all points of order raised earlier in the House. At this time we must, I think, await his ruling, because it seems to me that this is more of the same.

Until then, I again ask for the cooperation of all parties in the House for the few minutes of debate remaining today.

The BudgetGovernment Orders

4:20 p.m.

Liberal

George Proud Liberal Hillsborough, PE

Madam Speaker, I was going to rise on a point of order myself because I assumed this was put to bed 15 minutes ago, that we were through with this point of order. I hope there will not be any more points of order on this issue.

The education fund makes tremendous access to education possible for a lot of people who otherwise would not necessarily have the funds to attend a post-secondary institution. This will provide funding for an awful lot of Canadian students who otherwise would not have had that.

This budget has in general given Canadians something they have been waiting for for many years. We have not gone all the way. The Minister of Finance has said this many times. We have just opened the door. It will come. Things will get better as time goes on. Canadians will rejoice in that we have given them tax breaks, we have made access to education possible, we have put money into health care, we have done all the things Canadians have asked us to do with the number one and number two issues.

I say to all of my colleagues that this is a tremendous budget. I have been here for almost 10 years and this is one of the best budgets I have seen come down in that time and I will have no problem selling it in my constituency.

The BudgetGovernment Orders

4:25 p.m.

Liberal

Jean Augustine Liberal Etobicoke—Lakeshore, ON

Mr. Speaker, I am very pleased to participate in the debate on this 1998 budget.

I would first of all like to congratulate the Minister of Finance, the hon. Paul Martin, for producing a balanced budget, the first we have had in 30 years.

Balancing the budget has not been an easy task. We know it required fiscal prudence, the sacrifice of all Canadians and the commitment of the government to listen and to act on the social and economic priorities of Canadians.

In this budget, our commitment to provide a secure future for all Canadians is reinforced and reaffirmed. I am very pleased to see that the government has introduced new initiatives and has expanded upon existing programs to produce greater support to Canadians.

The initiatives outlined in this budget will provide support for families with children, support for people looking after family members and access to knowledge and skills along with support for persons with disabilities.

These are measures and initiates essential for economic growth in my constituency of Etobicoke—Lakeshore and other communities across Canada.

The budget is not an end in itself but a means to a better future for all Canadians. We must, therefore, continue to dialogue with Canadians to assess and to address the needs and concerns of all communities.

Last November I held a prebudget consultation in my riding of Etobicoke—Lakeshore. In my discussions with my community groups and various individuals from the business community and others, I heard my constituents say that they want the federal government to do three things in this budget: continue on the path of deficit reduction, use the fiscal dividends to address the social and economic needs of Canadians and, third, provide tax cuts and support for young Canadians.

This is the message that I delivered to the Standing Committee on Finance and I am pleased to say to all of my constituents today that the government heard and responded to their concerns.

In Etobicoke—Lakeshore, reaction to the budget has been positive. I and those constituents who contacted me agree that the government has taken a step in the right direction.

My staff contacted community organizations such as the Lakeshore Area Multi-service project that provides front line service to constituents and their families, and Storefront Humber, which is an organization that provides service to senior citizens and others.

Those phone calls were made to gauge my constituents' sentiments on budget 1998. They understand that deficit reduction is the key to putting our nation on the right track to social and economic prosperity.

My constituents also understand that investing in our children's future has to remain one of the top priorities of the government. It is not surprising then that a balanced budget and increases to the child tax benefit are well supported.

I would now like to speak to the priorities of my constituents as they relate to the budget.

First, on deficit reduction, Etobians and all Canadians have every reason to be encouraged by the government's fiscal policy on deficit reduction which has brought us to this point.

In the budget speech, the Minister of Finance reaffirmed the Liberal government's deficit reduction plan. We made a commitment in the red book in 1993 to put our fiscal house in order. We have followed through on this commitment with a balanced budget that will remain balanced in 1998-99 and 1999 to the year 2000.

In 1993, Canada had a $42 billion deficit, the largest in our history. With this deficit, we were in a period of high interest rates and slow economic growth. Canadians were faced with the prospect of paying those higher interest rates on the debt with few job opportunities.

Thanks to the sound fiscal policy, this $42 billion will no longer be on the government's books. We have a zero deficit.

We are speaking about a zero deficit budget. This means that the government is making tremendous fiscal progress. It is creating a strong, vibrant economy where interest rates are low and economic growth is high.

A strong economy that is well managed is needed so that Canadians can compete in the global economy. Low inflation and low interest rates give Canadians confidence in their economy. Over the past three years the people of Etobicoke—Lakeshore have been able to reap some benefits because of reduced payments on mortgages and loans.

Canada will lead the G-7 nations in economic and job growth in 1998 and this is no common boast. Our debt to GDP ratio is decreasing. Our goal is to put the debt to GDP ratio on a downward track and to do so without borrowing and increasing the debt burden of Canadians.

We must stay the course, say my constituents. We have a balanced budget because of tough fiscal discipline and we must not let up.

Secondly, on the Canadian opportunities strategy my constituents agree that young people are the future of our nation. When we invest in their future we are building a stronger nation. There is no better investment in the future than investment in education, in knowledge and in innovation. We are living in a technologically literate, knowledge based economy.

I am the mother of two young women. I was an educator for over 30 years working with young people. I sat on a university board of governors. I know the plight of young people. I have listened to many young people in my riding who have talked to me about the difficulties they face in today's job market. They are in a vicious cycle of no job experience, no gainful employment. This budget will change this cycle.

Youth at risk, students and graduates want the government to take an active role in ensuring that there is equal opportunity to post-secondary education and assistance for debt burdens. The Liberal government is aware of this reality and this is why we are giving support to young Canadians through the Canada opportunities strategy, knowledge and skills needed for jobs now and in the future. Better jobs and higher standards of living for our young people in the 21st century is our goal.

The Canada millennium scholarship fund will remove the barriers for young Canadians to get the post-secondary education or advanced technical training that they will need to get gainful employment.

I want the young people in my riding to know that the Canada millennium scholarships will commence in the year 2000. They will be awarded to over 100,000 full and part time students every year over 10 years through an initial endowment of $2.5 billion from the federal government.

My colleagues across the floor commented that the start of the fund is not soon enough and that students would be better off if they were given the money now. We are putting the administrative structures in place so that the fund can be administered fairly and efficiently and this will take some time.

Our role is to support young Canadians and we will take on the responsibility of creating the measures to facilitate this role. The Canada millennium scholarship fund is an initiative that will benefit Canadians of all ages at various institutions who are undertaking studies under different terms.

The principles of fairness and equity are embodied in the millennium scholarship fund. I believe that this fund will lessen the financial stress that many Etobians face at present.

It is important that young Canadians leaving colleges and universities with heavy student loans which they are often unable to repay get the help that is needed right now. This budget does give them a break.

In conclusion, we must continue to build on our resolve to bring about fiscal order to our country while we focus on the needs of our young people. I call on my colleagues on all sides of this House to support this budget to ensure that all our young people have the future that is important for them.

The BudgetGovernment Orders

4:35 p.m.

Bloc

René Canuel Bloc Matapédia—Matane, QC

Madam Speaker, I listened very carefully to my hon. colleague's presentation. She is very concerned with helping young people pursue their education; she is a teacher and I was one too. Everyone agrees with this. The situation of a 20- or 21-year old student who has not yet found a job and has accumulated between $25,000 and $30,000 in debts is truly difficult. It makes no sense and I agree.

However, everyone knows that, in Quebec, we have had a grants and loans system for 30 years. Why add to something that already exists in Quebec and is extremely well managed? This is a relatively simple situation. Had the government agreed to give money, say 25%, back to the Quebec Ministry of Education, our young people would still have received the money and their debt load would have been lighter. That is what we want. I hope my hon. colleague will address this aspect in her answer. I agree with the objective, but not with the way it is achieved.

This budget is touted as a wonderful thing. Last year, I sat on the Standing Committee on Natural Resources. We did some work on rural areas. In my riding of Matapédia—Matane, we have fishers, foresters and farmers. These are the three main classes of workers in my riding.

Unfortunately, most of their jobs are seasonal jobs. Some of these people need another 10, 20 or 30 weeks of work to qualify for employment insurance. As you know, new claimants are required to accumulate 910 hours of work. It is nearly impossible for fishers to accumulate 910 hours of work.

Forestry workers in my region are as proud and hard-working as anyone else in Quebec. Sometimes, they are short a few hours. There are people in my riding who lost their homes.

This is supposed to be a wonderful, an extraordinary budget. Come and tell the people in my region that this is a wonderful, an extraordinary budget, that there is hope. No. The rural community had suggested that a department of rural development be established, but I, as the Bloc Quebecois spokesperson, said: “No, let us not complicate things and cause further duplication; let us just invest in agriculture”.

Here is my question to the hon. member: Can she tell me if there is anything in this budget for fishers, farmers and foresters? That is my question.

The BudgetGovernment Orders

4:35 p.m.

Liberal

Jean Augustine Liberal Etobicoke—Lakeshore, ON

Madam Speaker, it seems I have about a minute or so to answer three questions. I would again ask my colleague to pay attention and read the budget papers that were so generously sent to our various offices.

I want to focus on one aspect, which is the whole issue of young people and their debt load. I will agree with the hon. member that young Canadians are leaving colleges and universities with heavy debt. I would agree with him that the loan payments for young people at present are burdensome, but I would also direct his attention to the assistance which is given to young people in the budget.

If he is saying to me that people are saying this is a good budget, I want to say to him, yes, it is a good budget. It is not a perfect budget because there is nothing in life which is absolutely perfect, but there are items in the budget which respond to the needs of Canadians. The member must agree that we have covered the issue of women and children, we have covered students at various levels, not just at university but also at college, we have covered the issue of part time workers—

The BudgetGovernment Orders

4:40 p.m.

The Acting Speaker (Ms. Thibeault)

I am sorry, but I must interrupt the hon. member as her time has expired.

The BudgetGovernment Orders

4:40 p.m.

Reform

Gary Lunn Reform Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC

Madam Speaker, I would also like to split my 20 minutes with a colleague, but I understand that I will only have three or four minutes before I will be cut off for the vote.

First of all, I wish I could be as proud of this budget as I am to be a Canadian and as I am of our national anthem and our flag. I mean that sincerely. I would have liked to have had an opportunity to speak on this issue earlier, but I did not.

I want to talk about the positive in the budget. There is one positive. Canadians taxpayers, all across this country, can give themselves a pat on the back. They balanced the budget.

Too often we have heard that the Minister of Finance or this government or the Liberals have done it, but there is no question about it, the taxpayers have suffered in order to balance the budget.

Now I will get into the negative side of it. I will focus on three areas. I only have a couple of minutes so I will rush through this quite quickly.

They keep talking about this 50:50 plan. There is absolutely no question that the evidence before this House is that this is 100% increased spending. There is zero debt reduction. There is absolutely zero tax relief. There is no question about it.

Government members will have a few token things to say to suggest that there is tax relief, but there is not. Make no mistake about it, there is no tax relief.

I listened to the constituents of Saanich—Gulf Islands. I sent out a resumé. I am here as their voice to speak on their behalf. I got over 2,000 responses. Ninety-five per cent of those responses said the most important priorities are to pay down the debt and reduce taxes. Five per cent said that the most important priority was to increase spending.

What has this government done? It has not only increased spending in this budget, the $3 billion—and they do not seem to know where it has gone—has gone into the Prime Minister's or the finance minister's personal slush fund.

I am going to speak specifically to a couple of points because a lot of the points I was going to make have already been made.

This is a Liberal debt. Make no mistake about it. The Liberals have added $75 billion to the debt since they took office. There is $5.5 billion worth of interest each year.

This is what I find to be quite amazing. We listen in the House of Commons day after day after day to the Liberals talking about the debt. What do they do all the time? They blame the Tories.

The Minister of Finance points to the Tories and says “The Tories left us this big mess in 1993”. But the Liberals started it long before the Tories were in power. They are the ones who brought in this debt under former Prime Minister Trudeau. They started it and look where we are today. The Liberals stand up so proudly and pass the buck over to the Tories. They should be ashamed of themselves.

I want to speak to a point which I think is absolutely shameful.

The Liberals keep talking about families. This government and this budget have absolutely no respect for the stay-at-home parent who looks after their family. They are discriminated against now in this budget.

The BudgetGovernment Orders

4:45 p.m.

Liberal

Bob Kilger Liberal Stormont—Dundas, ON

Madam Speaker, on a point of order. Some of this information was not available well in advance as it customarily is before we enter negotiations among the parties for unanimous consent for travel.

Earlier today members of the transport committee unanimously approved the following consultation plan expenses in support of its study of passenger rail transportation in Canada.

I will go to the motion directly, keeping in mind the reason the committee is able to reduce its travel plans dramatically by 50% would be by way of taking advantage of a seat sale, and of course those tickets would become non-refundable if they are not purchased within the two days of booking. The clock began ticking yesterday, Wednesday, February 25.

Therefore, I move:

That the House approve the travel budget of the Standing Committee on Transport, in the amount of $60,000, and authorize 14 committee members and three support staff to travel to London, England, and Paris, France, from April 13 to April 20, in connection with its study of rail passenger services.

The BudgetGovernment Orders

4:45 p.m.

Independent

John Nunziata Independent York South—Weston, ON

Madam Speaker, I would like to ask the Chair whether it is appropriate for this motion to be put at this time. As I understand the order of the House, at 4.45 the Chair is required to ring the bells to call in the members to vote on the Bloc amendment to the amendment.

Madam Speaker, could you indicate whether the whip of the government is in order to put the motion at this time?

The BudgetGovernment Orders

4:45 p.m.

Liberal

Bob Kilger Liberal Stormont—Dundas, ON

Madam Speaker, I believe I was very close to 4.45 when I sought the floor of the House. I do admit I am guilty of taking a little longer, possibly, in making my submission for unanimous consent, but I did begin prior to 4.45.

The BudgetGovernment Orders

4:45 p.m.

The Acting Speaker (Ms. Thibeault)

Does the hon. member have the unanimous consent of the House to move the motion?

The BudgetGovernment Orders

4:45 p.m.

Some hon. members

No.

The BudgetGovernment Orders

4:45 p.m.

The Acting Speaker (Ms. Thibeault)

It being 4.47 p.m., pursuant to order made Monday, February 23, 1998, it is my duty to interrupt the proceedings and put forthwith every question necessary to dispose of the amendment to the amendment now before the House.

Is the House ready for the question?

The BudgetGovernment Orders

4:45 p.m.

Some hon. members

Yes.

The BudgetGovernment Orders

4:45 p.m.

The Acting Speaker (Ms. Thibeault)

The question is: Mr. Martin (LaSalle—Émard), seconded by Mr. Gray (Windsor West), moved: That this House approve in general the budgetary policy of the government.

Shall I dispense?