House of Commons Hansard #100 of the 36th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was association.

Topics

PetitionsRoutine Proceedings

3:25 p.m.

Liberal

Paul Szabo Liberal Mississauga South, ON

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to present a petition signed by a number of Canadians including from my own riding of Mississauga South.

The petitioners would like to draw to the attention of the House that managing the family home and caring for preschool children is an honourable profession which has not been recognized for its value to society.

They also agree with the National Forum on Health which stated that the Income Tax Act discriminates against families who make the choice to provide care in the home to their preschool children.

The petitioners therefore call on parliament to initiate tax changes which would eliminate that discrimination against families who provide direct parental care to preschool children in the home.

PetitionsRoutine Proceedings

3:25 p.m.

Liberal

Gerry Byrne Liberal Humber—St. Barbe—Baie Verte, NL

Mr. Speaker, pursuant to Standing Order 36, I am pleased to present to the House of Commons a petition regarding the Newfoundland bulk ferry service.

The petitioners ask parliament to consider providing proper assistance to this essential service and to deem it so under the Canada Labour Code, part I.

Questions On The Order PaperRoutine Proceedings

3:25 p.m.

Peterborough Ontario

Liberal

Peter Adams LiberalParliamentary Secretary to Leader of the Government in the House of Commons

Mr. Speaker, I would ask that all questions be allowed to stand.

Questions On The Order PaperRoutine Proceedings

3:25 p.m.

The Deputy Speaker

Is that agreed?

Questions On The Order PaperRoutine Proceedings

3:25 p.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

Motions For PapersRoutine Proceedings

3:25 p.m.

Peterborough Ontario

Liberal

Peter Adams LiberalParliamentary Secretary to Leader of the Government in the House of Commons

Mr. Speaker, I ask that all Notices of Motions for the Production of Papers be allowed to stand.

Motions For PapersRoutine Proceedings

3:25 p.m.

Reform

John Duncan Reform Vancouver Island North, BC

Mr. Speaker, I would like Motion No. P-14 to be called.

That an Order of the House do issue for a copy of all Observer Trip Reports and Data Packages for foreign boats fishing within Canada's 200 mile exclusive economic zone, plus those same Reports and Packages for all bilateral fishing agreements that Canada has outside the 200 mile exclusive economic zone, for the 1997 calendar year.

Motions For PapersRoutine Proceedings

3:25 p.m.

Liberal

Peter Adams Liberal Peterborough, ON

Mr. Speaker, I would suggest that this Motion for the Production of Papers be transferred for debate.

Motions For PapersRoutine Proceedings

3:25 p.m.

The Deputy Speaker

The notice is transferred for debate pursuant to Standing Order 97(1).

Motions For PapersRoutine Proceedings

3:25 p.m.

Reform

Ken Epp Reform Elk Island, AB

Mr. Speaker, I request that we call Motion No. P-16.

That an Order of the House do issue for copies of all documents relating to the Royal Canadian Mint building a coin plating plant in Manitoba.

Motions For PapersRoutine Proceedings

3:25 p.m.

Liberal

Peter Adams Liberal Peterborough, ON

Mr. Speaker, I suggest that under the same standing order this motion also be transferred for debate.

Motions For PapersRoutine Proceedings

3:25 p.m.

The Deputy Speaker

The notice is transferred for debate pursuant to Standing Order 97(1).

Motions For PapersRoutine Proceedings

3:25 p.m.

Reform

Ken Epp Reform Elk Island, AB

Mr. Speaker, I am sure you will correct me if I am wrong, but is it enough for the parliamentary secretary to only suggest it? Does he not actually have to do it?

Motions For PapersRoutine Proceedings

3:25 p.m.

The Deputy Speaker

I guess technically the Chair does it on the request of a member. That is my recollection of the rule. It has been some time since I have read Standing Order 97, I do not mind telling the member, but my recollection is that when any member requests it, it is ipso facto transferred for debate.

Motions For PapersRoutine Proceedings

3:25 p.m.

Reform

Garry Breitkreuz Reform Yorkton—Melville, SK

Mr. Speaker, I would like to have Motion No. P-17 called.

That an Order of the House do issue for copies of all minutes of meetings of the User Group on Firearms and for copies of all correspondence between the User Group on Firearms and the Minister of Justice and officials in the Department of Justice.

Motions For PapersRoutine Proceedings

3:25 p.m.

Liberal

Peter Adams Liberal Peterborough, ON

Mr. Speaker, if the wording is correct, I request that this Motion for the Production of Papers also be transferred for debate.

Motions For PapersRoutine Proceedings

3:25 p.m.

The Deputy Speaker

The notice is transferred for debate pursuant to Standing Order 97(1).

Motions For PapersRoutine Proceedings

3:25 p.m.

The Deputy Speaker

Is it agreed that the remaining Notices of Motions for the Production of Papers stand?

Motions For PapersRoutine Proceedings

3:25 p.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

Canada Lands Surveyors ActGovernment Orders

3:30 p.m.

Victoria B.C.

Liberal

David Anderson Liberalfor the Minister of Natural Resources

moved that Bill C-31, an act respecting Canada Lands Surveyors, be read the second time and referred to a committee.

Canada Lands Surveyors ActGovernment Orders

3:30 p.m.

Humber—St. Barbe—Baie Verte Newfoundland & Labrador

Liberal

Gerry Byrne LiberalParliamentary Secretary to Minister of Natural Resources

Mr. Speaker, I am very pleased to open debate on Bill C-31, an important piece of legislation that will transfer to the Association of Canada Lands Surveyors specific responsibilities related to professional standards of conduct, continuing education and skills development of Canada lands surveyors. I acknowledge the support of members and parties of this House as we proceed through this legislation.

Anyone who has ever purchased a house or a piece of property is familiar with the important work of land surveyors. Their job is to provide a detailed and accurate survey of the boundaries of the property for legal registration and for transfer of ownership. The Canada lands surveyor is specially qualified and commissioned to conduct legal surveys on Canada lands, lands which the federal government holds and manages in trust for the people of Canada.

Canada lands include the Yukon and Northwest Territories, Indian reserves, offshore areas of Canada and the national parks system. Anyone who requires a survey of a boundary of Canada lands must have the survey made by a qualified Canada lands surveyor.

I pay tribute to the tremendous contribution made by government surveyors both past and present. Dominion land surveyors, as they were known until 1979, literally opened up this country. Their stories are a part of our history. In 1874 Great Britain transferred Rupert's Land and the Northwestern Territory to the Dominion of Canada. The federal government needed land surveyors at that time to survey and subdivide the land for settlers.

We just have to fly over western Canada to be familiar with the results of the incredible work accomplished in the 1880s when dominion land surveyors conducted what was probably the largest survey effort in history. Their work made it possible for immigrants and settlers to obtain lands in Manitoba, Saskatchewan and Alberta. We see the results of their labour in the straight as an arrow property lines. When hopeful miners flooded the Yukon territories during the gold rush in 1898, they found a dominion lands survey office already in business in Dawson where they could legally register their claims.

More recently, members of the House have seen the work of the Canada lands surveyors in some of the legislation we have considered in the House: the boundaries of the new national parks such as Vuntut National Park in the Yukon in 1994; the descriptions of the boundaries of land transfers affecting Indian reserves which appear as orders in council; even the boundaries of federal electoral districts. These are accomplished by the Canada lands surveyors through the office of the Surveyor General of Canada Lands.

On behalf of the federal government, Canada lands surveyors are currently making massive and critically important surveys in the Yukon and Northwest Territories. Several thousand parcels of land, some small and some large, involved in aboriginal land interests and land claims must be legally surveyed and recorded. This survey effort will help to define and shape the legal boundaries of the Canadian north. It involves millions and millions of dollars and directly affects the lives of residents of these territories.

I have explained the historical and the present day role of Canada lands surveyors in order to demonstrate to this House the scope and importance of their contribution to the country. These professionals are experts in property rights, land management, land registration and the survey system used in Canada lands. Their expertise is acquired through university education, continuing education through their professional associations, and through hands on experience in the field.

To be granted a commission as a Canada lands surveyor, a candidate must first successfully complete a rigorous set of formal examinations and meet other requirements including basic work experience of at least two years. Surveying is a knowledge based activity and as such demands a great deal of the people who seek the right to use the designation of Canada lands surveyor.

Since 1872 the Surveyor General of the Dominion, now Canada Lands, has had the responsibility for the board of examiners. This body establishes professional qualifications and standards, sets the examinations and grants commissions as Canada lands surveyors. Under the present legislation the board also oversees the professional conduct of the Canada lands surveyors but has limited disciplinary powers.

Bill C-31 will transfer responsibility for the board of examiners from the surveyor general to the Association of Canada Lands Surveyors. The provisions proposed in the legislation are both efficient and appropriate.

For a number of years now at the provincial level, self-governing professional associations have been managing the responsibilities which we are now proposing at the federal level be transferred to the Association of Canada Lands Surveyors. Self-governing associations relieve government of the day to day work of ensuring that the members of the profession achieve and maintain professional standards of practice.

The government of which I am a representative does not hand over such important authorities lightly or arbitrarily. The legislation which we are now considering today touches the day to day lives of hundreds of thousands of people and concerns approximately one-half of the Canada land mass. Thus for some seven to eight years the federal government has undertaken detailed study, consultation and dialogue with the Association of Canada Lands Surveyors, with various other associations and with other federal government departments who rely on the services of Canada lands surveyors. This includes Parks Canada and Indian and northern affairs for instance. Our intent is to accomplish the transfer in an orderly and responsible fashion.

The Association of Canada Lands Surveyors has been actively involved in preparing for this important role since 1990. Formerly established in 1985 as an independent multidisciplinary association, the association is the successor to the Canada lands surveyors professional affairs committee of the Canadian institute of surveying.

There are four principal areas of responsibility involved in this proposed legislation: examination, admission, qualifications and discipline. I have already spoken to some extent about the examination and admission processes which are under the auspices of the board of examiners.

Under the proposed legislation the board of examiners under the management of the Association of Canada Lands Surveyors will continue to set rigorous technical and scientific examinations and issue commissions to successful candidates. What will change in this area however is the day to day management of the examination and accreditation process of the board of examiners which will be assumed by the association rather than by the Office of the Surveyor General of Canada Lands.

This is an important recognition of the stature of the profession and gives the Association of Canada Lands Surveyors authorities similar to those practised by provincial associations. Moreover the move is consistent with the government's commitment to improve the way government works by turning over to the private sector responsibilities in areas of activity that can be efficiently and effectively managed by the private sector.

I spoke earlier of the fact that surveying is a knowledge based discipline. As the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Natural Resources, which is of course a scientific and knowledge based department, I am very particularly interested in the enhanced role the association will be playing in the skills development, training and continued education of the Canada lands surveyors.

The demanding examination process ensures that Canada lands surveyors are well qualified at the time of receiving their commission and provide professional standards of service, but it is no guarantee that those standards are maintained over time. Under the proposed Canada lands surveyors act the association will have both the authority and the means to ensure that its members maintain their professional standards.

One of the key commitments made by the association in preparation for this legislation is to provide continuing education programs for its members. Given the critical importance of lifelong learning and skills development in the knowledge based society and the new economy, this commitment by the association is particularly significant.

The association has also committed to promoting the profession of Canada lands surveyor in order to ensure that there continues to be a pool of qualified Canada lands surveyors available across Canada. There must be a sufficient number of these people working in the Yukon and Northwest Territories and near Canada lands across the country to provide quick efficient services at a reasonable cost.

The association has already demonstrated its leadership in this area since 1990 by preparing videos and holding seminars across Canada explaining the survey legislation and the Canada lands surveyors examination process.

The fourth key area addressed by Bill C-31 involves discipline and complaints procedures and provisions which will be implemented by the association. These new provisions and procedures significantly improve the current system and better protect members of the profession and the public and clients who call upon the services of Canada lands surveyors.

Ninety-nine per cent of the people actively working in the field carry out their duties with full professionalism and respect for quality, standards and service. Common to self-regulating professions is the ability to investigate complaints concerning performance and standards. As a result of Bill C-31 the association will be able to investigate complaints and to impose a range of penalties appropriate to the situation should fault occur. This will both protect the public interest and safeguard the reputation and integrity of Canada lands surveyors.

Once this legislation comes into effect all Canada lands surveyors who want to conduct legal surveys on Canada lands will have to be members of the association and will be required to carry liability insurance. This will ensure that the association is in a position to monitor, govern and self police the professional standards and conduct of Canada lands surveyors.

The proposed legislation is carefully designed to preserve and maintain the integrity of the Canada lands survey system. The Surveyor General of Canada Lands will continue to be responsible for the standards of property or legal surveys of Canada lands. Likewise the surveyor general will continue to be responsible for the standards of survey documentation submitted to the Canada lands survey records. Boundary commissions, descriptions of federal electoral districts, and surveys required by native land claims also remain under the jurisdiction of the surveyor general.

The benefits of the profession to the clients and to the Government of Canada are clear. With the provisions of Bill C-31 in place, the standards of conduct required of Canada lands surveyors will be enhanced to the level already in place provincially. Members of the profession will be assured that their fellow Canada lands surveyors have all met and continue to meet the high professional standards and requirements of the commission they bear so proudly.

The Canadian public will have the assurance and protection of a self-governing professional association to whom they can turn with complaints and concerns about the professional competence or conduct of Canada lands surveyors whenever that may be necessary. The promotion of the profession by the association will encourage new recruits to join the ranks of the Canada lands surveyors ensuring that qualified people are available across the country to carry out these important surveys. The government will have at its service a pool of professionals whose skills are continuously updated and current as we continue to shape and define the boundaries of lands we hold and manage in trust for the people of Canada.

In conclusion, I would like to thank hon. members for providing me with this opportunity to speak to this important bill, Bill C-31. I also appreciate the level of co-operation which I understand exists in the House today in terms of the furtherance of this bill.

Canada Lands Surveyors ActGovernment Orders

3:40 p.m.

Liberal

Peter Adams Liberal Peterborough, ON

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. There have been consultations between the parties. I think you will find that there is unanimous consent that we deal with all stages of Bill C-31 today, including second reading, committee of the whole and third reading.

Canada Lands Surveyors ActGovernment Orders

3:40 p.m.

The Deputy Speaker

Is the parliamentary secretary suggesting that there be unanimous consent to change the motion from second reading and referral to a standing committee to referral to committee of the whole? Is that what he is asking at this stage? The House will not adjourn until the bill has been adopted at all stages, is that what the parliamentary secretary is suggesting? I am seeking clarification of what is being asked for at this point. Perhaps we could proceed with this understanding for the time being and if there are specific orders to be adopted at a given moment we can adopt them. On debate at second reading, the hon. member for Athabasca.

Canada Lands Surveyors ActGovernment Orders

3:40 p.m.

Reform

Dave Chatters Reform Athabasca, AB

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to join in the debate on Bill C-31, the Canada lands surveyors act. The bill as the parliamentary secretary has stated transfers the responsibilities of the existing board of examiners for Canada lands surveyors to the Association of Canada Lands Surveyors.

The Association of Canada Lands Surveyors is a non-government association with mandatory membership. In other words, one cannot be a Canada lands surveyor without having membership in this association.

As with any bill introduced in the House for second reading, it stirs an interest, a curiosity as to why it is introduced and what efficiencies or benefits Canadians gain from either the change in legislation or the new legislation.

Upon inquiry and investigation this is kind of a curious situation with the Canada lands surveyors in that it seems to make perfectly reasonable sense to do what this bill proposes to do. However, one has to wonder why now. Every province in Canada has for years had a professional association of surveyors, and the surveyor general assures me that the reason for this is it will provide better service to Canadians than the Government of Canada has been able to provide in the past.

That raises questions as it has raised in previous times. If it is good for the country why did it take so long for this government to admit it and to get on with the business of introducing and passing the bill?

I would like to go through how the bill will serve Canadians better. First, it would transfer responsibility for developing and maintaining professional standards among Canadian lands surveyors from a federal agency to a non-government agency. This non-government agency, the Association of Canada Lands Surveyors, will be responsible for designing and implementing a complaints and discipline process that the government itself does not seem to be able to put in place, or to maintain to the same degree at least, as this non-government organization.

Currently there does not appear to be any formal process to deal with complaints of quality of workmanship or professionalism of Canada lands surveyors.

Under existing legislation the board of examiners must prove gross negligence or corrupt practices to discipline a land surveyor. Certainly those are pretty draconian measures and not an easy task to achieve.

Through the proposed changes, however, there will be very clear processes by which the complaints may be filed against individual surveyors. These changes call for the formation of a complaints committee and a discipline committee, the latter of which will have the power to discipline a surveyor in a number of ways if proved negligent or incompetent.

I wholeheartedly agree with the creation of two committees. We need to protect the good name of responsible and reputable surveys as well as the integrity of the Canada lands survey system. As my colleague the parliamentary secretary pointed out, the Canada lands surveyors have a long and glorious history of service in Canada and certainly in opening up this country for settlement.

I believe the implementation of a formal discipline process will help us to accomplish the goal of maintaining that integrity and that reputation. The complaints and discipline committees set up as a result of this transfer will have the power to discipline surveyors guilty of incompetence or professional misconduct.

It would be very time consuming and costly for the federal government to design and implement such a process. Therefore I was delighted to learn that through this transfer the association will assume financial responsibility for this process as well.

The association will not receive funding through the government but rather through the collection of membership dues from its member Canada lands surveyors. Second, through the transfer of responsibilities this bill will result in the creation and operation of a practice review program that will ensure that Canada lands surveyors maintain professional standards.

Lands surveyors will be required to continue to upgrade skills in order to ensure high quality and accuracy of surveys. The practice review program will be fully funded by the association, as will the continuing education program through which surveyors can continue to upgrade skills.

Currently each of the 10 provinces has professional associations operating in much the same way as the Association of Canada Lands Surveyors.

Like other professional associations, ACLS will have mandatory membership and similar standards to its sister associations in the 10 provinces. The proposed changes mean that surveyors surveying on public lands, including land in Yukon and Northwest Territories, on Indian reserves and in national parks as well as in offshore areas, will be adhering to the same standards as surveyors elsewhere in Canada. Surveyors across Canada will be expected to show the same level of skills and professionalism.

I support the government's efforts to eliminate and streamline government agencies. This transfer would not eliminate but streamline the responsibilities of the legal surveys division of Environment Canada. It would relieve this agency of the burden of setting and enforcing professional standards among Canada land surveyors. The surveyor general would continue to establish standards for and manage surveys made under the Canada Land Survey Act. The surveyor general will also retain custody of records of all such surveys. These changes will simply shift responsibly for the licensing and continual review of the performance of surveyors without infringing on the surveyor general's control over the surveys produced.

Such government downsizing and streamlining is purported to serve the interests of the Canadian public. However, in reviewing the proposed act I wondered if this act would truly benefit the average Canadian. The government has itself admitted that the introduction of this act was largely driven by the interests of the Association of Canada Lands Surveyors. The association has been asking for this role for 10 years. However, as history has shown, it is often the case that many professional associations act in the best interests of the professionals they represents rather than in the interests of the clientele the professionals serve.

Therefore I was interested in how this transfer would protect the interests of the average Canadian. It is, after all, the average Canadian I was elected to represent. In answer to this I found that the proposed changes would standardize the quality of surveying services received by all Canadians. This act will establish the Association of Canada Lands Surveyors as a non-government professional association that adheres to similar standards as its provincial counterparts. This means that residents in Yukon and Northwest Territories, Indian reserves and town sites within national parks will receive the same quality of survey service as Canadians living elsewhere in Canada. Approximately 450,000 Canadians residing on Canada lands will directly benefit from these changes.

This in itself does not positively reassure me that Canadians are being well served by the changes being proposed by this act. However, I am reassured by the fact that the professional association will not be completely autonomous of the federal government. The association will be a self-governing body within federal jurisdiction. Through this act the minister retains the power to take such measures as the minister considers appropriate to fulfill any objective of the association the minister is of the opinion the association is not fulfilling. Providing the acting minister has the best interests of Canadians at heart, this clause can be used as a means of government intervention should the association fail to meet its obligation under this act.

It is not uncommon for Canadians to engage in disputes over property lines. Many Canadians do not notice the errors in the surveys of their land until they go to build a fence, pave a driveway or plant a tree. Although this is only one small aspect of land surveying, it is my hope that this transfer of responsibility will raise the quality of surveys to a level whereby such disputes can be avoided from the outset by high quality surveys. It is also my hope that ACLS will honour its obligation to the Canadian public by serving the interests not only of the member surveyors but of the Canadian public as a whole.

I believe this act, if properly implemented, will result in an association of responsible, professional and reliable surveyors equipped with the most current skills and knowledge. Therefore I and my party support Bill C-31.

Canada Lands Surveyors ActGovernment Orders

3:50 p.m.

Peterborough Ontario

Liberal

Peter Adams LiberalParliamentary Secretary to Leader of the Government in the House of Commons

Madam Speaker, I rise on a point of order. I previously received some guidance from the Chair on this and some advice from members opposite. There have been consultations between the parties.

I think you will find unanimous consent for the following motion. I move:

That all stages of Bill C-31, including second reading, committee of the whole and third reading, be completed today, and that all questions necessary for the completion of those stages be put no later than 5.30 p.m.

(Motion agreed to)