Debates of March 16th, 1999

Canadian Broadcasting Corporation

[The Speaker]

The hon. member for Burin—St. George's.

The East Coast Fishery

[Bill Matthews, Progressive Conservative, Burin—St. George's, NL]

Mr. Speaker, thousands of our people have been forced out of work due to our declining groundfish resources. Underwater cameras have uncovered compelling evidence of the destruction of our codfish stocks by the growing seal herds in our bays and off our coasts. Tonnes of partly eaten codfish have been discovered on the ocean floor in the Bonavista Bay area.

Seals only consume part of the fish, leaving the rest on the ocean floor to decay. It is time the Government of Canada, the custodian and manager of seal herds and our fish stocks, immediately increase the seal harvest to give our groundfish stocks a chance to regenerate.

The Economy

[Monte Solberg, Reform, Medicine Hat, AB]

Mr. Speaker, first it was the Prime Minister's in-law, Paul Desmarais, who said that high taxes were strangling Canada's economy. Today Doug Young, his former cabinet minister, chaired a whole conference on plummeting Canadian productivity. At the conference the Prime Minister's own pollster admitted that Canadians are upset with our declining standard of living, and the weak dollar proves it.

If top Liberals do not buy the Prime Minister's low dollar-high tax argument, then why should the rest of us?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, the Canadian people are quite happy with the economic policies of this government. The Canadian people are very happy that we have taken unemployment from 11.4% to 7.8%. The Canadian public is quite happy about the fact that we have reduced the Conservative's deficit from $42 billion to zero and we are still going. The Canadian people are pretty happy to see that the Financial Times of London has called Canada the top dog of financial managers.

[Monte Solberg, Reform, Medicine Hat, AB]

Mr. Speaker, under this government's leadership I would say our economy has been a bit of a mongrel. High taxes, low dollar. That is the Prime Minister's plan.

Who else spoke at that conference today? Dr. Sherry Cooper of Nesbitt Burns. She blasted the Prime Minister for the fact that Canada has the worst record of productivity among industrialized nations. The reason? High taxes. What is the proof of this? Our low dollar.

Is the Prime Minister proud that our standard of living is declining? Why does he continue to brag about a 65 cent dollar?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, 1.6 million more Canadians are working since we took power. A study mentioned yesterday that Canada ranks number one among G-7 countries in terms of business costs. It stated that Canada has the third lowest corporate income tax rate for manufacturing among the G-7, lower than the United States. It stated that we have the lowest labour costs of the G-7.

This long list tells everybody that if they want to do good business the best place to go is Canada.

[Monte Solberg, Reform, Medicine Hat, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I cannot believe that the Prime Minister just stood in this place to defend the fact that Canadians are willing to work for peanuts. That is the Liberals' whole argument. They somehow think it is a good thing that Canadians have lower wages than those in other countries around the world. Recipients of those low wages can tell the Prime Minister that it is no fun.

When is the Prime Minister going to wake up and understand that a falling standard of living is not a good thing, that it hurts Canadians?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, the problem with the Reform Party is that it cannot take good news as news. The only thing it can do is dampen the situation in Canada because we are doing quite well. I understand why Joe Clark does not want to talk with the Reform Party.

[Jason Kenney, Reform, Calgary Southeast, AB]

Mr. Speaker, this government continues to make light of the fact that our dollar is declining, our standard of living is declining, our productivity is declining relative to other industrialized countries—

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[The Speaker]

Order. We will hear the hon. member.

[Jason Kenney, Reform, Calgary Southeast, AB]

Sometimes the truth hurts, Mr. Speaker.

How can government members stand in their place to defend a 65 cent loonie? How can they defend giving Canadians a lower standard of living? When in opposition the finance minister said that the Canadian dollar should be 78 cents. How can he defend a 65 cent dollar when he is in government?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, the facts as cited by the Reform Party are just simply wrong. The fact is that Canada did have declining productivity, which had begun some 20 years ago.

Let us look at the facts. In 1997 Canada's productivity rose 2.9%, the highest since 1984 and twice that of the United States. Those are the facts.

[Jason Kenney, Reform, Calgary Southeast, AB]

Mr. Speaker, let us talk about the facts. The OECD says that Canada was the only G-7 country to see a reduction in its productivity between 1979 and 1997. It said that Canada's productivity performance used to place it among the top performers, but now it has fallen significantly.

We are going down while other countries are going up. Our dollar is at 65 cents, giving Canadians a lower standard of living.

How does this finance minister defend a bargain basement priced country when we should be growing and not shrinking our standard of living?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member is caught in a time warp. Take a look. He started in 1979. He ought to get with it.

Since 1996-97 our productivity has been on the increase, employment has been on the increase and Canadians have been on the increase. There is only one thing declining now and that is the Reform Party's popularity.

International Forums

[Michel Gauthier, Bloc, Roberval, QC]

Mr. Speaker, when it comes to talking about culture internationally, the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs has made himself very clear: Canada is a sovereign nation and must, in his view, have only one voice. At best, Quebec will play a secondary role in any future delegation.

Would the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs please be a bit clearer and tell us very specifically that, if Quebec wants to play more than just the role of a regional component, the only course open to it is that of sovereignty?

[Stéphane Dion, Liberal, President of the Queen's Privy Council for Canada and Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, Quebeckers are extremely fortunate to belong to a country that is one of the most influential in the world—

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[Stéphane Dion, Liberal, Saint-Laurent—Cartierville, QC]

—and play a major role by sharing in the sovereign country called Canada.

Yesterday, the Premier of Quebec said a very shocking thing. He said that a Canadian government official cannot represent the culture of Quebeckers.

I would like to quote something the Premier of Quebec said in February 1996 “I have worked in Ottawa at the highest level. One cannot become an expert in this overnight, and we have not had an opportunity in Quebec City to develop this expertise”.

[Michel Gauthier, Bloc, Roberval, QC]

Mr. Speaker, it would be so much wiser for the minister and so much simpler for everyone if he answered the questions. Le Petit Robert gives the figurative meaning of potiche as someone given an honorary position but no active role.

Is the role the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs has in mind for the Government of Quebec with respect to its culture the role of a potiche?

[Stéphane Dion, Liberal, President of the Queen's Privy Council for Canada and Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, let us not confuse two different issues.

The first has to do with improving this federation, which is already well advanced compared to others, including in its ability to express its views internationally.

The second concerns how to react to the obviously separatist ploys of the Bouchard government internationally.

I have here a document released two years ago entitled “Plan stratégique de ministère des relations internationales”. It contains the following “Actively promote the various facets of Quebec society internationally... so as to be able, when the time is right, to count on support in realizing the government's political project”.

Let us not confuse these two issues.

[Louis Plamondon, Bloc, Richelieu, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the same minister.

The latest Statistics Canada figures indicate that the proportion of francophones in Canada dropped from 29% to 24% between 1951 and 1996. Only in Quebec has the proportion remained stable.

How can the federal government claim to be in the best position to represent Quebec culture internationally, when it is not even capable of stopping the erosion of the francophone communities outside Quebec?

[Sheila Copps, Liberal, Minister of Canadian Heritage]

Mr. Speaker, one thing is certain, we are not about to leave in the cold the one million francophones outside Quebec who need the support of Canada if they are to safeguard their language and culture.

[Louis Plamondon, Bloc, Richelieu, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I would have preferred an answer to my question rather than the statement the minister has just made.

We are aware of how courageously the francophones outside Quebec are defending themselves against assimilation.

Yet, when we see the federal government's dubious success in supposedly defending Canada's francophones, is it at all surprising that Quebeckers do not want Ottawa defending their culture outside Canada?

[Sheila Copps, Liberal, Minister of Canadian Heritage]

Mr. Speaker, on the one hand, the hon. member is claiming a desire to support francophones outside Quebec, while on the other he is leaving them in the cold with a policy which states that there is French only for Quebec, and English for the rest of Canada.

In this party and this country, Canada, we believe in two founding peoples and two official languages. That is why francophones outside Quebec can count on us to support the culture of Canada, the culture of two peoples.