Debates of May 5th, 1999

National Horse Of Canada Act

[Hélène Alarie, Bloc, Louis-Hébert, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I must say from the outset that I certainly agree with all the praise about the Canadian horse, because it is true and because the Canadian horse is part of Quebecers' collective memory.

However, unlike my colleague, I cannot name all the breeders of the Canadian horse in my riding, because there are simply too many of them. Having worked with them, I know for a fact that there is a long list of them, because Quebec remains the province most interested in that breed.

I cannot name them all like the hon. member did, but I was flattered that he would mention Cap-Rouge, which is located in my riding and is a place where horses have always been kept. I will mention other locations later on.

I rise to address Bill C-454, introduced by the hon. member for Dufferin—Peel—Wellington—Grey. Its short title is the National Horse of Canada Act. I should point out that the bill does not include a summary explaining its purpose and the reasons for its tabling.

However, the full title of the bill, an act to provide for the recognition of the Canadian Horse as the national horse of Canada, sheds more light. The objective is not to legislate on a national breed of horse that is already famous, but to declare the Canadian horse a symbol of Canada.

In fact, the Liberal member for Lanark—Carleton, who tabled a similar bill—I even recognized some of the wording used in 1995—made his objective clear when he said “We need more symbols to add to the rich tapestry which is Canada's history—If we embrace the goal of the bill it would make some small contribution to national unity”.

It is telling that the bill before us today makes no mention of New France or Quebec and only refers to the North American colony. Actually the first horse that came to this land in 1665 as a gift from the King of France, Louis XIV, arrived in Quebec City. It is in New France that this breed, which became known as the Canadian horse, thrived and increased in number, reaching 12,000 in 1760.

In fact, when we talk about the Canadian horse, the word Canadian, according to the Glossaire du parler français au Canada , refers to a colony of French origin established in New France or to an inhabitant of French Canada, as opposed to the word English, which refers to those inhabitants of English origin.

It is probably not a coincidence that the member for Lanark—Carleton introduced this bill only a few weeks after the Front commun interraces du patrimoine québécois submitted a request to the Quebec minister of agriculture, fisheries and food for the recognition of the Canadian horse.

At a time when serious events are unfolding on the international scene and when we should be working for peace, it is sad to see this House using some of its precious time in another flag flap, especially considering the fact that, if I am not mistaken, the Canadian horse was recognized by the federal cabinet in 1909. Why rekindle the debate on this issue?

It must be noted also that this bill is only symbolic. It does not propose any concrete measures to protect the breed it purports to promote. I take this opportunity to mention that this government has a tendency to favour verbal commitments that do not lead to any concrete measures.

For example, at the same time the government signed the Rio convention on biodiversity, it abolished dozens of researcher positions at the Canadian Museum of Nature. These researchers were working on an inventory of endangered species. How are people to protect biodiversity if they have no idea which species are threatened?

Another example is the legislation the government wanted to pass to protect endangered species, but which contained no protection measures as if it were enough to name the species, as with the Canadian horse, to save it from extinction.

Quebecers, however, have taken the necessary action to protect the Canadian horse. In 1880, for example, François Pilote—the founder of the École d'agriculture de La Pocatière, which became the faculty of agriculture where I studied, the oldest French language agricultural institution in North America—along with Édouard Barnard and Dr. Couture, a veterinarian, did something about the survival of this race by selecting and breeding the best specimens of the time and establishing a stud book.

More recently, when the Canadian horse went through a difficult period in the late sixties and early seventies, the Government of Quebec stepped in with special programs at the Deschambault farm. The number of horses again began to grow following the dispersal and breeding of the Deschambault herd in 1981, and with the help of the program to develop the Canadian horse.

From a total population of barely 700 in 1984, the number of horses increased from 975 to 1,360 between 1986 and 1996, and now stands at 2,000.

I think that the member for Dufferin—Peel—Wellington—Grey, who introduced this bill, is well aware of the problems faced by farmers for, in addition to sitting on the Standing Committee on Agriculture and Agri-Food, he runs a farm himself. I therefore urge both him and his colleagues to use their talents to talk about the real needs of our farmers and to develop policies and programs to help them.

The committee works in a spirit of co-operation and we should be concerned with several urgent issues, namely genetically modified foods or Bill C-80 revising and consolidating certain acts respecting food and agricultural commodities.

I seize this opportunity to remind the hon. member that I introduced, last Monday, Motion M-619 calling on the federal government to respond to the decreasing number of farms and their increasing size by adopting, in co-operation with the provincial governments, a policy to recognize and support small farms.

I believe that all members in all parties will recognize that this proposal on small farms deserves to be examined and that, if adopted, it will have a real impact on farmers' living conditions.

The agri-food industry's fantastic development is very promising in terms of job creation and exports. However, this should not lead us to neglect small farms, often family farms, which are the basis of the social fabric of rural areas where Canadian horses can often be found.

I must oppose Bill C-454. In no way will it contribute to the preservation and development of the Canadian horse. This bill is simply an attempt to use the name of this breed and serve the purposes of the Minister of Canadian Heritage, who wants to suppress historical facts and create a unique Canadian identity by multiplying symbols.

In view of the fact that the so-called Canadian horse was introduced and developed in Quebec, that those who trained this breed were inhabitants of what became Quebec and that those same people managed to prevent its extinction, it would be more appropriate for the National Assembly of Quebec to recognize this particular breed of horse.

[Nelson Riis, NDP, Kamloops, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to see there are many others who want to speak to this important piece of legislation.

I want to congratulate my friend from Dufferin—Peel—Wellington—Grey for introducing Bill C-454, an act to provide for the recognition of the Canadian horse as the national horse of Canada.

I need to say thank you to constituents Yvonne and Jim Hillsden of Cherry Creek who brought this issue to my attention some time ago. They are proud to be one of the three major British Columbia breeders of the Canadian horse. They brought this issue to national attention. They have urged me to support this bill and I will do so with a great deal of enthusiasm. I would like to see that this very important national symbol is recognized.

As others have said, this whole issue began back in 1647 when a horse was brought over from France as a gift for the governor of the day. It was considered unfitting for a knight to be without a horse and to have to walk through the mud or ride in an ox cart like the other people had to do. This horse was the first modern horse to gallop along on Canadian soil.

Not long after that there were imports of other horses from France. It is fair to say that the breed itself is recognized as coming from King Louis XIV and is a combination of Spanish Barb horses, Andalusion horses, French Norman horses and horses with Breton blood in them. It is a very interesting breed.

Many of us have seen this horse perhaps for the first time in the artwork of Cornelius Krieghoff which depicts scenes from the province of Quebec. For many years we saw through his work these small horses working the land, carrying children to school, sick people to doctors, pulling cutters and carriages. Off and on they provided entertainment in the form of racing on lakes at night after the gruelling work was completed. It was such gruelling work that there was an attempt to ban the racing because of the danger to the horses but the spirit continued and the racing went on.

These little horses had a number of nicknames. One was the little iron horse. It had that name because it was a relatively small horse but it was a tough horse. It existed in that time in new Canada on very poor quality food, out in the cold with minimal shelter and did very hard work.

The long and the short of it was that only the very strongest of these animals survived. A very hardy breed resulted here in Canada. It went on to be one of the founding breeds of a number of the horses that are very familiar to us today in various parts of the United States and other parts of the world. I am speaking of the Tennessee Walking Horse, the Saddlebred horse and of course the Morgan horse. To this day when viewing the Morgan one can see that little iron horse from Canada standing there in a slightly different form.

It also went on to have other nicknames. The most recent one is that it is called Canada's best kept secret because until fairly recently it was focused only in one part of Canada. Only in recent years have vast numbers of Canadians become aware of this wonderful horse and to appreciate what its contribution to the modern world of horses could be.

We are fortunate because it almost became extinct. It was very popular in Canada particularly during the American civil war. Its hardiness, sturdiness and ability to work hard was appreciated. Thousands were sent to the United States to take part in that dastardly civil war. We came very close to losing this breed. At one point there were only a few hundred left. I am pleased to say that as a result of breeders taking on this challenge right across Canada, particularly in the province of Quebec, today we are talking of at least a few thousand horses of this Canadian breed.

I could speak a great deal about this horse. It is an incredibly friendly animal. Its primary purpose today would be to pull carriages and that sort of thing. It is also a great working horse. I have seen the horse in action. Any horse owner would be very proud to have one. I hope one day to own one of these horses myself on my own farm. I look forward to that day. It is not there yet but it is the kind of horse I would like to see as part of my operation.

The New Democrats will support this bill. We support it with a great deal of enthusiasm. This is an excellent initiative being brought forward by my colleague.

The United States does not have a national horse. I do not think Britain has a national horse. Obviously Peru has one. We see more and more Peruvian horses in Canada. Mexico has its own national horse. I think it is time that Canada too had its national horse and it should be the Canadian horse.

[Mark Muise, Progressive Conservative, West Nova, NS]

Mr. Speaker, it gives me great pleasure to stand. I feel somewhat—

[An hon. member]

Honoured.

[Mark Muise, Progressive Conservative, West Nova, NS]

That is not what I was thinking. I was thinking more along the lines of after all these great debates on the horse that I am still very pleased to address this bill.

I congratulate the member for Dufferin—Peel—Wellington—Grey for recognizing the importance of the Canadian horse and the role it has played throughout our history. I must admit, like my colleague from the Reform Party, I found myself somewhat beleaguered with my limited knowledge of the Canadian horse, but after a bit of research I felt more comfortable to talk on the topic.

I also thank my caucus colleague from South Shore for putting me in touch with Mr. Hiltz who helps run the Ross Farm Museum. Not only was Mr. Hiltz extremely helpful in providing me with a historical background of the Canadian horse, but he also described the nature of this kind and gentle animal.

The Ross Farm Museum has 11 registered Canadian horses in its stables. Although most Canadian horse breeders reside in the province of Quebec as was discussed by a few of my colleagues this evening, the Canadian horse is nevertheless making its way across Canada and into the northern United States. There are approximately 3,000 registered Canadian horses in the country.

This is the oldest horse breed in Canada. The first specimen arrived in Canada from France in 1647 as a present for the governor, Chevalier de Montmagny.

King Louis XIV understood how hard life was for the colonists who had no horses and had to cope with a very harsh environment. He therefore decided to send over some horses.

Eighteen years after the first Canadian horse arrived in Canada, the King of France sent over 20 mares, 8 of which died during the voyage, as well as 2 stallions. Over the next century, the Canadian horse population increased to about 12,000.

The Canadian horse played a key role in the development of the country. As I read through some of the material that was provided to me, it became apparent that this breed was no ordinary horse. Its legend is still talked about in certain circles within the horse breeding industry.

Stories of doctors galloping through Canada's primitive roads on the backs of their trusted Canadian horses to tend to the sick and dying are well known in the 18th and 19th centuries. Legend has it that one Quebec City butcher and his Canadian horse outraced an overnight steamer to Montreal to collect on a bad debt.

The Canadian horse is somewhat smaller in stature compared to some of the other heavier horses. However, what distinguished the Canadian horse from others is its big heart. The legend of the Canadian horse grew immensely during the 1760s when the British brought over their own workhorses, the Percherons, the Clydesdales and the Belgians, to Quebec following its capture. Initially mocking the Canadian horse, the British quickly realized that this breed was far better than those presently in their stables.

The Canadian horse is generally a very quiet animal, excellent for a carriage horse. The Canadian horse was capable of accomplishing dual responsibilities without difficulty, either for transportation or for heavy labour.

It is very hard for someone of my generation to understand how important a role the horse played in the lives of our ancestors. For most of us, a horse is nothing more than a very beautiful animal we sometimes see on a farm. But a horse is far more than that. It is a symbol of what helped us develop this great country called Canada.

The Canadian horse is a symbol of what was accomplished through much hard work as our ancestors struggled to survive under very difficult conditions in the new world.

Canada could certainly use more identifiable symbols of things that have helped make this country the greatest country in the world. Unlike our southern neighbours who take great pride in promoting their unique history, Canadians unfortunately do not seem to have that same enthusiasm.

It is important that we take stock of our own history. Canada has a number of highly identifiable symbols including the Canadian flag, our provincial coats of arms and the maple leaf, just to name a few. The Canadian beaver is an instant reminder of the fur trade. The loon has been adopted as a symbol of serenity.

I quote a passage in the “Symbols of Canada” booklet published by the Department of Canadian Heritage:

Symbols of Canada can be used to heighten not only our awareness of our country but also our sense of celebration in being Canadian.

The Canadian horse is a symbol of what we have accomplished together through hard work and great hearts. This horse epitomizes the drive and perseverance it will take from each and every one of us to continue to make our country grow and prosper.

I once again congratulate the member from across the floor for focusing our attention on the fine exploits of the great Canadian horse. I encourage all members of the House to support the bill and recognize the Canadian horse as the national horse of Canada.

[Hec Clouthier, Liberal, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Mr. Speaker, it gives me great pleasure to speak in favour of Bill C-454. If the little Canadian horse was not in Canada, as my dad would say, perhaps I would not be here. That might please some, if not all, members of the House.

Let me explain. My father, at the age of 13, had finished his third book, could not afford to take the train from Petawawa to Pembroke to further his education, and had to work in the project camps, at which point his father consigned to him a team of Canadian horses. Their names were Pete and Prince. They were not very big, but at the project camp they worked for the princely sum of $5 a month. Those were big wages back in 1929.

This pair of little Canadian horses had to pull the same load as the big Belgians, the Percherons and the Clydesdales that were driven by other people and moving rocks. To put it in perspective, it would be the same as hooking up the hon. member for Wild Rose and the hon. member for Winnipeg South. Those two behemoths competed against me and the hon. member for Sault Ste. Marie. It would be the little horses against the big horses.

Because my dad loved those little Canadian horses and they were not very big, once the load of rock was on the wagon he would conveniently forget to close the back end. Thus when he was going up the grade some of the stones would fall off and naturally the load would become a little lighter.

When the foreman of the job rationed the feed, because it was during the depression era, he said to my dad “Listen, you only need half the feed for your horses because they are only half the size”. However he expected those little Canadian horses to do the same job. Therefore in the middle of the night my dad would awaken and borrow some more hay and oats for his horses, because they were so darned good to him.

At the end of summer my dad took a job for the Pembroke Lumber Company for which he was paid 5 cents a log. This same team of horses, Prince and Pete, went with him back into the bush operation. They were without a doubt, according to my dad, the sturdiest animals he ever had. He is still alive at 83 years of age.

At one time we had a team of 55 work horses and a team of over 20 little Canadian horses. Their bellies used to touch the snow and they broke the trail to skid the logs out. These were the hardiest little animals. The other horses would get bogs and splints. They would get scratches from the ice between the hoof and fetlock. The scratches would open up and the horses would not be able to work because they were bleeding. The little Canadian horses were hardy little fellows and they would keep going. There was no denying the fact that they were the best workers.

My dad at 14 years of age used to cut logs with a crosscut all day. He would be so tired at the end of the day that he would get on one of the horse's back and fall asleep, and the horse would bring him back to the camp.

We must bear in mind that at that time people like my dad would get up at 5 o'clock in the morning. It would be dark when they would leave camp and they would not get back until 7 o'clock at night when it would be dark again. The only time they saw the light of day at the camp was on Sunday, and even then they would on occasion take Pete and Prince to church with them.

We have heard another speaker tonight talk about how courageous and fast these horses were. Let me tell a story about the crazy wheel. The crazy wheel is a mechanism that hooks on to the back of a sleigh. When going down a steep hill with a team of horses a cable would be hooked on to the back of the sleigh and the sleigh would be let down. Back in the thirties and forties the roads would be iced so it would be easier for the horses to pull the sleigh. Halfway down one of these steep hills, when my uncle Dave was driving the team, the cable broke. Members know what happened. The cable broke. The load started pushing the horses and the little Canadian horses were running down the hill. My dad shouted to my Uncle Dave “jump Dave, jump” because there was a sharp corner at the bottom of the hill before they got on to the lake.

My Uncle Dave, being a rather stubborn fellow, decided not to jump. They went around the corner and they broke the bunks of the sleigh. The bunks of the sleigh are what keeps those logs in line. My Uncle Dave went into the bush with some of the logs but the little team kept on going around the corner and out on to the ice. They were not hurt but they were terribly fast.

Other speakers have said that they used to actually race these horses at night. Many do not know that the little Canadian horse is one of the genesis of the standardbred horse. I happen to have my standardbred horse licence and race horses. There was one particular standardbred horse called Cam Fella which reminded my dad and I of these little Canadian horses. He was only a little horse but everybody who touched that horse made money. Doug Arthur bought him for $19,000, made $150,000 with him, and sold him for $2 million to a breeder. That breeder made $5 million with him and he sired 16 million dollar winners.

I know some of my other colleagues want to speak to this bill, but I will tell one little story about my father at the end of hunting season when he polished up his brass harness and took the horse on parade in Pembroke, Ontario, back in 1942. Some of the people started cawing at the horse, saying the horse was crow bait. My dad was so incensed and actually chased the people away. The little Canadian horses used to grow a lot of hair, something like my colleague from Ottawa Centre or my colleague from Bourassa. Their long hair kept them from getting sores on their bodies.

I congratulate the member for Dufferin—Peel—Wellington—Grey. I was trying to figure out what he had in common with horses. We know he is a chicken farmer of fame. I have noticed that chickens have wings, but there was a legendary horse called Pegasus that had wings. When I raced my horse last Sunday night at Rideau Carleton, I wished that my horse had the wings of Pegasus and the heart, determination and charisma of the little Canadian horse because I might have won the race. To be honest, my trainer said that it was probably more the driver's fault than the horse's fault.

My father and Prince and Pete, those two little Canadian horses of 1929, would be honoured if somehow we could see fit to name the Canadian horse Canada's national horse. I thoroughly endorse the hon. member.

I will sit down because two members are giving me the evil eye. I think they are ready to give me a horse kick if I do not wrap up now and give them the opportunity to say a few words. Bravo, little Canadian horse.

[Denis Coderre, Liberal, Bourassa, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I will not take long. I could not let the rubbish spouted by my friends in the Bloc pass once again. Most importantly, I wanted to support, with vigour I hope, my colleague from Dufferin—Peel—Wellington—Grey and his important bill.

A bill can be said to be not important, but when the Bloc talks on and on about recognition and symbols and tries to claim for themselves as a Quebec horse the French Canadian horse that has been proven historically to be the Canadian horse, we have problems.

I do not know what the interpreters will do with this one, but let me put it this way: the Bloc is blathering again. They said that all my colleague wanted to talk about was national unity and that, in the end, he had started another flag flap.

A lot of things go on in Rimouski. They still do not know whether Céline Dion is a Quebecer or a Canadian, and the same goes for a breed of horse.

And the PQ, the Bloc's head office, finally decided during the last general council, that it was absolutely necessary to have a resolution recognizing the French Canadian horse as the only breed in the world that is part of Quebec heritage. The avowed objective was to act before the federal government. Bill C-454 seeks, how shocking—to quote an article written in Le Soleil by my friend Michel David on Thursday, April 22, 1999—recognition for the national horse of Canada. One can see the reason for this sense of urgency.

If there is one inane debate within Bloc Quebecois, it is the one on identity. It never fails. They always try to find some issue and turn it into a flag flap. We should be proud that a French Canadian horse is a symbol of Canada.

Canada includes Quebec and the rest of the country. There are French Canadians everywhere in Quebec. Again, they are trying to cut themselves off from symbols and say that it is only in Quebec that worthwhile things are happening.

As a Quebecer, a French Canadian and a Canadian, period, I fully support my colleague, because I think it is important. We need symbols, and we need to recognize them as such.

It is through recognition that we begin to solve problems. Once again, they are making a big fuss and saying “No, no, it is a Quebec symbol”.

We should unanimously support the hon. member in saying that the French Canadian horse is the national horse of Canada.

[The Deputy Speaker]

If the hon. member for Dufferin—Peel—Wellington—Grey wishes to exercise his right of reply, he may do so now. I advise the House if he speaks now, he will close the debate.

[Murray Calder, Liberal, Dufferin—Peel—Wellington—Grey, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I want to thank the members who have stood here tonight and supported my private member's bill, Bill C-454.

I am a little disappointed that the Bloc would try to cheapen what the Canadian horse is, a symbol of Canada, a symbol of our heritage, the symbol of the integrity of Canada. I am a little upset about that.

I want to thank the other parties that have definitely shown their support. The Progressive Conservative Party has shown its support. The Reform Party has shown its support. The NDP has shown its support. So has my own party. I express a heartfelt thanks to the members who have stood here tonight.

I would like to seek unanimous consent for the following motion. Given that clearly there is considerable interest in this issue and given that the opposition, particularly the Reform Party says that it wants more free votes in the House, I would move that Bill C-454, an act to provide for the recognition of the Canadian horse as the national horse of Canada, be deemed to have been chosen as a votable item.

[The Deputy Speaker]

Is there unanimous consent that the bill be made votable?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[An hon. members]

No.

[The Deputy Speaker]

The period for the consideration of Private Members' Business has now expired and the order is dropped from the order paper.

A motion to adjourn the House under Standing Order 38 deemed to have been moved.

[Gordon Earle, NDP, Halifax West, NS]

Mr. Speaker, this Liberal government has committed an injustice to black Nova Scotians and all Canadians.

This government has also done a grave injustice to justice itself. “If justice is fairness to all, then justice has not prevailed in Nova Scotia”. These words wrap up the Donald Marshall commission. These words have unfortunately never been more true than today.

The commission recognized that black people in Nova Scotia have been systematically excluded from the legal profession. The commission recommended that “governments consider the needs of visible minorities by appointing qualified visible minority judges and administrative board members whenever possible”.

One scant month after spouting nice words and lovely sentiments during Black History Month, the Liberal government turned back the clock on racial equality.

The Liberal government did a grave injustice to all when it overlooked Nova Scotia's most senior female judge and the only black family court judge when making appointments to the province's new unified family court.

Judge Corrine Sparks was passed over and ignored in a conscious decision by the government to appoint judges who have sat on the bench in Nova Scotia for less time. Judge Sparks was appointed in 1987. The government overlooked her in favour of judges appointed in 1995, 1993 and 1991 among others. As Lincoln Alexander, chairperson of the Canada Race Relations Foundation stated, this is a “major slap in the face to the black community” and suggests this government's actions “smack of racism”.

I first raised this issue in the House of Commons on April 14. The government buried its head in the sand and hoped the problem would go away, as governments in this country have so often hoped when it comes to issues of fairness for blacks and other Canadians of colour.

Then on April 26 I listened with incredulity to the justice minister's answer to my question on this issue. She responded by telling me that the government had appointed a black judge in Alberta. Well stop the presses. The government has appointed a black judge. Clearly, enough is enough for the government and one black judge must somehow ease the Liberal government's conscience. I suppose the government is now quite comfortable and pleased with itself that it has done all it can in the fight against the oppression of visible minorities.

The minister seems to be suggesting on behalf of the Liberal government that one black judge is more than enough to appease blacks and Canadians of colour in this country from coast to coast and to keep us quiet and thankful. The appointment she refers to is over 3,000 kilometres from the blacks in my riding.

The issue is that Judge Sparks seems more than qualified to have received one of these appointments. The fact that a black judge was appointed elsewhere has no relevance whatsoever to Judge Sparks' situation. The minister seems to suggest that Judge Sparks is not qualified enough to receive this appointment. Is it the fact that she is the most senior woman judge in the province that does not qualify her? Is it the fact that she is the only black family court judge in the province that does not qualify her? Or does she not qualify because she has many more years experience than others who were appointed?

The government went from ashamed to shameful when it went so far to avoid appointing a black judge that it ignored Judge Sparks in favour of appointing someone who is not even a judge. In my riding alone there are the predominantly black communities of Beechville, Lucasville and Upper Hammonds Plains. Also in Nova Scotia are North Preston, East Preston, Sackville, Cherrybrook, Lake Loon, Westphal, Dartmouth, Halifax, and several other areas all with large black populations.

When sitting as a supreme court judge, Bertha Wilson remarked in a lecture at Osgoode: “If women lawyers and women judges through differing perspectives on life can bring new humanity to bear on the decision making process, perhaps they will make a difference. Perhaps they will succeed in infusing the law with an understanding of what it means to be fully human”.

I join with the Black Lawyers Association of Nova Scotia, the African United Baptist Association of Nova Scotia, the Canada Race Relations Foundation and the Nova Scotia Federation of Labour in telling the government to correct this grievous wrong now. Canadians, and especially black Canadians, are watching and waiting for the government's response.

The Quebec government recently appointed Juanita Westmoreland-Traore to the Quebec provincial court.

Let the Liberal government show some courage and a sincere effort to fight racism.

[Eleni Bakopanos, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, let me begin by saying on my behalf and as someone who has worked for equality in this country for a long, long time, over 25 years, and on behalf of the Minister of Justice and the government that I take very strong exception to the remarks made by the hon. member.

This government rejects any suggestion that the decision taken was discriminatory and racist. We are confident that Canadians looking at the government's record on appointments will see concrete evidence of the personal commitment of the Minister of Justice to improving the quality and diversity of the judiciary and in particular, to increasing minority representation and women's participation on the bench. A fair reading of our recent efforts will prove this.

In Nova Scotia in the past year alone the Minister of Justice and this government have has appointed two outstanding jurists from minority communities, Judge Heather Robertson and Justice Linda Oland. Furthermore, real efforts are being made through judicial appointments committees across this country to achieve the objective of greater diversity on our benches. These efforts are bearing fruit.

More could be done. I agree with the hon. member on that. As the minister herself said last week in answer to these questions from the hon. member, critics of these recent unified family court appointments should know that we are a government that takes considerable pride in the fact that we appointed the first black judge in the province of Alberta to a superior court.

These decisions are not made in isolation, something the opposition often forgets. As with all appointments, the Nova Scotia unified family court appointments were made following extensive consultations with the provincial attorney general, senior members of the bench and the bar. They are excellent appointments and reflect our continuing commitment to a strong family court.

This is the real story of what has happened in Nova Scotia recently. Through a shared vision and the provision of resources, the unified family court, the province of Nova Scotia and the federal government have laid the groundwork for reducing the costs and the pain of family disputes and want to find lasting solutions to benefit families and children.

[Bill Casey, Progressive Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the very distinguished Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Transport.

Just a few weeks ago the Government of Nova Scotia and Transport Canada arranged a meeting in Truro, Nova Scotia in my riding to discuss the emergency measure aspects of hazardous material transportation. The plan was to move radioactive material which originated in Russia.

The plan agenda said: “The sample of radioactive material which comes from Russia by ship will enter Canada in Halifax and be moved by road to Chalk River, Ontario early this summer”. This was an unequivocal statement. It was not a conjecture or a proposal. It was stated as a fact. This material would be transferred through Nova Scotia, New Brunswick, Ontario and Quebec by road, presenting a significant hazard.

It obviously begs the question as to why we are bringing radioactive material to Canada in any case. We already have a waste disposal problem with radioactive material. Why did the government not respect the unanimous vote in the foreign affairs committee to not bring the material to Canada?

Another obvious question is if the Department of Natural Resources says there has been no request made for this transfer, and there are no plans to bring the material to Canada, why did they plan this meeting in the first place? Again, it was the Department of Transport in conjunction with the province of Nova Scotia.

For the provinces of Nova Scotia, New Brunswick, Quebec and Ontario, there was no public consultation. Even more disturbing, the emergency measures organizations involved stated this week that they do not have adequate training and do not have equipment for this project.

We now know the meeting has been cancelled and the minister has stated that there is no plan right now to proceed. Obviously there was a plan. Obviously there is some intent here. Obviously there is some intention because the province of Nova Scotia and the Government of Canada let the cat out of the bag by releasing this agenda.

Before any radioactive material is transported through Nova Scotia, New Brunswick, Quebec and Ontario, will there be public consultations and will the people affected along the route have the opportunity to register their objections and concerns? Will the federal government provide adequate training, equipment and protection for all the emergency measures organizations involved along the route of the transfer of radioactive material if it does happen?

[Stan Dromisky, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Transport]

Mr. Speaker, I am certainly pleased to have the opportunity to respond to the matters raised by the hon. member for Cumberland—Colchester on April 22, 1999 regarding the transportation of test quantities of mixed oxide fuel, otherwise known as MOX fuel.

Transport Canada's role is to ensure that if dangerous goods are transported in Canada, they are transported safely.

Before the transport of MOX fuel for testing in Chalk River can take place in Canada, Atomic Energy of Canada Limited is required to develop an emergency response assistance plan and obtain approval of the plan from Transport Canada. The emergency response assistance plan must set out how Atomic Energy of Canada Limited would respond in the event of an emergency. As well, it would contain the proposed routing options. Atomic Energy of Canada Limited has not yet proposed a plan to Transport Canada.

Given the fact that every year in Canada there are over 800,000 shipments of radioactive materials, department officials routinely offer technical sessions for fire chiefs and other respondents as a measure of safety. The offer from Transport Canada to begin the technical sessions in Nova Scotia erroneously contained the statement that the Russian federation MOX would arrive in Halifax.

As I mentioned earlier, we do not yet have a proposal from Atomic Energy of Canada Limited. Therefore, we do not know if Halifax will be proposed or not. However I can assure the House that if an application is received Transport Canada will carry out its role of ensuring that if this material is transported in Canada it will be transported safely.

[The Deputy Speaker]

The motion to adjourn the House is now deemed to be have been adopted. Accordingly, this House stands adjourned until tomorrow at 10 a.m. pursuant to Standing Order 24(1).

(The House adjourned at 7.45 p.m.)