Debates of June 2nd, 1999

Petitions

[Leon Benoit, Reform, Lakeland, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the second petition I am honoured to present concerns the children of divorced and divorcing parents.

The petition states that no parent should ever lose legal custody of a child, or by legal process be denied adequate parenting time unless there has been due process to determine that the parent is unfit. This is signed by petitioners from my constituency.

[Leon Benoit, Reform, Lakeland, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the third petition concerns spending public money on projects which are not properly scrutinized.

The petitioners refer in particular to the spending of $98,000 on a book entitled 500 of the Best Dumb Blond Jokes . Members should know that many people besides the petitioners are upset about that as well.

[Nelson Riis, NDP, Kamloops, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I must say I am particularly upset with the point raised in the last petition myself, on a personal basis. However, I do not want to associate myself with the member's previous petition.

It is an honour to present a petition, pursuant to Standing Order 36, from a number of constituents who are aware of discussions presently ongoing with the Government of Canada and a number of provincial governments about the possible transferring of federal responsibility for urban native housing.

Consequently, the petitioners have a number of reasons for opposing this, which are pretty self-evident to most people. They are asking the Government of Canada not to proceed with the proposal to download the urban native housing program to the provinces.

[Nelson Riis, NDP, Kamloops, BC]

Mr. Speaker, the second petition is from a large number of constituents from the Kamloops region who are concerned about the pressures building to export freshwater from Canada.

The petitioners point out a number of reasons, which I have presented in previous petitions. They are calling on Canada not to proceed with any possible transporting or exporting of freshwater resources from Canada to the United States and Mexico.

Questions On The Order Paper

[Peter Adams, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Leader of the Government in the House of Commons]

Mr. Speaker, I ask that all questions be allowed to stand.

[The Deputy Speaker]

Is that agreed?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

Internet Child Pornography Prevention Act

[Nelson Riis, NDP, Kamloops, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I understand that there have been discussions among all the parties and I think you will find unanimous consent of the House to replace the name of the hon. member for Saskatoon—Rosetown—Biggar with the name of the member for Sackville—Musquodoboit Valley—Eastern Shore as a sponsor of private member's Bill C-424 on the order paper.

[The Deputy Speaker]

Is there unanimous consent for the proposition put forward by the hon. member for Kamloops, Thompson and Highland Valleys?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

Motions For Papers

[Peter Adams, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Leader of the Government in the House of Commons]

Mr. Speaker, would you be so kind as to call Notice of Motion for the Production of Papers No. P-39 in the name of the hon. member for Skeena.

Motion P-39

That an Order of the House do issue copies of the most recent band audits at all reserves in Canada that showed a deficit or an accumulated debt on their last band audit.

Motion No. P-39 is an order of the House to issue copies of the most recent band audits at all reserves in Canada that showed a deficit or an accumulated debt on their last band audit.

The financial statements of first nations and their organizations are mandatorily protected by paragraph 20(1)(b) of the Access to Information Act. Portions are mandatorily protected under subsection 19(1) which protects personal information. In addition, a federal court decision of June 27, 1985 judged that information regarding Indian moneys was confidential and not subject to release by the Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development.

First nations are required to make their audited financial statements available to members of their community. Officials of the Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development cannot release the audited financial statements because of the third party nature of the audit.

Individuals interested in reviewing a first nation's audit can contact the chief and council to request it. It is up to the chief and council whether they wish to disclose audits to non-band members.

I therefore request that the hon. member withdraw his motion.

[Mike Scott, Reform, Skeena, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I would like Motion No. P-39 to be called.

[The Deputy Speaker]

I think the hon. member has a choice. Could he indicate whether he wishes to proceed with the motion now and accept it subject to the limitations, or withdraw, or transfer it for debate? Those are really his options.

[Mike Scott, Reform, Skeena, BC]

Mr. Speaker, what I was trying to communicate is that I would like it transferred for debate.

[The Deputy Speaker]

The motion is transferred for debate.

[Peter Adams, Liberal, Peterborough, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I ask that the remaining Notices of Motions for the Production of Papers be allowed to stand.

[The Deputy Speaker]

Is it agreed?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

The House proceeded to the consideration of Bill C-54, an act to support and promote electronic commerce by protecting personal information that is collected, used or disclosed in certain circumstances, by providing for the use of electronic means to communicate or record information or transactions and by amending the Canada Evidence Act, the Statutory Instruments Act and the Statute Revision Act, as reported (with amendment) from the committee.

Personal Information Protection And Electronic Documents Act

[The Deputy Speaker]

There are 156 motions in amendment standing on the notice paper for the report stage of Bill C-54. The motions will be grouped for debate as follows.

Group No. 1, Motions Nos. 1, 2, 5, 9, 10, 27 to 33, 36 to 43, 47 to 49, 56, 58 to 96, 99 to 156.

Group No. 2, Motions Nos. 3, 4, 6 to 8, 11 to 26, 34, 35, 44 to 46, 50 and 51.

Group No. 3, Motions Nos. 52 to 55, 57, 97 and 98.

The voting patterns for the motions within each group are available at the table. The Chair will remind the House of each pattern at the time of voting.

I will now put Motions Nos. 1, 2, 5, 9, 10, 27 to 33, 36 to 43, 47 to 49, 56, 58 to 96, and 99 to 156 to the House.

Does the House wish to have this whole group of motions read?

[Some hon. members]

No.

[The Deputy Speaker]

Is it agreed that all these motions have been deemed moved, seconded and read to the House?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[Francine Lalonde, Bloc, Mercier, QC]

moved:

Motion No. 1

That Bill C-54, in the title, be amended by deleting the long title.

Motion No. 2

That Bill C-54 be amended by deleting Clause 1.

Motion No. 5

That Bill C-54 be amended by deleting Clause 3.

Motion No. 9

That Bill C-54 be amended by deleting Clause 5.

Motion No. 10

That Bill C-54 be amended by deleting Clause 6.

Motion No. 27

That Bill C-54 be amended by deleting Clause 10.

Motion No. 28

That Bill C-54 be amended by deleting Clause 11.

Motion No. 29

That Bill C-54 be amended by deleting Clause 12.

Motion No. 30

That Bill C-54 be amended by deleting Clause 13.

Motion No. 31

That Bill C-54 be amended by deleting Clause 14.

Motion No. 32

That Bill C-54 be amended by deleting Clause 15.

Motion No. 33

That Bill C-54 be amended by deleting Clause 16.

Motion No. 36

That Bill C-54 be amended by deleting Clause 18.

Motion No. 37

That Bill C-54 be amended by deleting Clause 19.

Motion No. 38

That Bill C-54 be amended by deleting Clause 20.

Motion No. 39

That Bill C-54 be amended by deleting Clause 21.

Motion No. 40

That Bill C-54 be amended by deleting Clause 22.

Motion No. 41

That Bill C-54 be amended by deleting Clause 23.

Motion No. 42

That Bill C-54 be amended by deleting Clause 24.

Motion No. 43

That Bill C-54 be amended by deleting Clause 25.

Motion No. 47

That Bill C-54 be amended by deleting Clause 27.

Motion No. 48

That Bill C-54 be amended by deleting Clause 27.1.

Motion No. 49

That Bill C-54 be amended by deleting Clause 28.

Motion No. 56

That Bill C-54 be amended by deleting Clause 32.

Motion No. 58

That Bill C-54 be amended by deleting Clause 33.

Motion No. 59

That Bill C-54 be amended by deleting Clause 34.

Motion No. 60

That Bill C-54 be amended by deleting Clause 35.

Motion No. 61

That Bill C-54 be amended by deleting Clause 36.

Motion No. 62

That Bill C-54 be amended by deleting Clause 37.

Motion No. 63

That Bill C-54 be amended by deleting Clause 38.

Motion No. 64

That Bill C-54 be amended by deleting Clause 39.

Motion No. 65

That Bill C-54 be amended by deleting Clause 40.

Motion No. 66

That Bill C-54 be amended by deleting Clause 41.

Motion No. 67

That Bill C-54 be amended by deleting Clause 42.

Motion No. 68

That Bill C-54 be amended by deleting Clause 43.

Motion No. 69

That Bill C-54 be amended by deleting Clause 44.

Motion No. 70

That Bill C-54 be amended by deleting Clause 45.

Motion No. 71

That Bill C-54 be amended by deleting Clause 46.

Motion No. 72

That Bill C-54 be amended by deleting Clause 47.

Motion No. 73

That Bill C-54 be amended by deleting Clause 48.

Motion No. 74

That Bill C-54 be amended by deleting Clause 49.

Motion No. 75

That Bill C-54 be amended by deleting Clause 50.

Motion No. 76

That Bill C-54 be amended by deleting Clause 51.

Motion No. 77

That Bill C-54 be amended by deleting Clause 52.

Motion No. 78

That Bill C-54 be amended by deleting Clause 53.

Motion No. 79

That Bill C-54 be amended by deleting Clause 54.

Motion No. 80

That Bill C-54 be amended by deleting Clause 55.

Motion No. 81

That Bill C-54 be amended by deleting Clause 56.

Motion No. 82

That Bill C-54 be amended by deleting Clause 57.

Motion No. 83

That Bill C-54 be amended by deleting Clause 58.

Motion No. 84

That Bill C-54 be amended by deleting Clause 59.

Motion No. 85

That Bill C-54 be amended by deleting Clause 60.

Motion No. 86

That Bill C-54 be amended by deleting Clause 61.

Motion No. 87

That Bill C-54 be amended by deleting Clause 62.

Motion No. 88

That Bill C-54 be amended by deleting Clause 63.

Motion No. 89

That Bill C-54 be amended by deleting Clause 64.

Motion No. 90

That Bill C-54 be amended by deleting Clause 65.

Motion No. 91

That Bill C-54 be amended by deleting Clause 66.

Motion No. 92

That Bill C-54 be amended by deleting Clause 67.

Motion No. 93

That Bill C-54 be amended by deleting Clause 68.

Motion No. 94

That Bill C-54 be amended by deleting Clause 69.

Motion No. 95

That Bill C-54 be amended by deleting Clause 70.

Motion No. 96

That Bill C-54 be amended by deleting Clause 71.

Motion No. 99

That Bill C-54 be amended by deleting Clause 4.1 of Schedule 1.

Motion No. 100

That Bill C-54 be amended by deleting Clause 4.1.1 of Schedule 1.

Motion No. 101

That Bill C-54 be amended by deleting Clause 4.1.2 of Schedule 1.

Motion No. 102

That Bill C-54 be amended by deleting Clause 4.1.3 of Schedule 1.

Motion No. 103

That Bill C-54 be amended by deleting Clause 4.1.4 of Schedule 1.

Motion No. 104

That Bill C-54 be amended by deleting Clause 4.2 of Schedule 1.

Motion No. 105

That Bill C-54 be amended by deleting Clause 4.2.1 of Schedule 1.

Motion No. 106

That Bill C-54 be amended by deleting Clause 4.2.2 of Schedule 1.

Motion No. 107

That Bill C-54 be amended by deleting Clause 4.2.3 of Schedule 1.

Motion No. 108

That Bill C-54 be amended by deleting Clause 4.2.4 of Schedule 1.

Motion No. 109

That Bill C-54 be amended by deleting Clause 4.2.5 of Schedule 1.

Motion No. 110

That Bill C-54 be amended by deleting Clause 4.2.6 of Schedule 1.

Motion No. 111

That Bill C-54 be amended by deleting Schedule 4.3 of Schedule 1.

Motion No. 112

That Bill C-54 be amended by deleting Clause 4.3.1 of Schedule 1.

Motion No. 113

That Bill C-54 be amended by deleting Clause 4.3.2 of Schedule 1.

Motion No. 114

That Bill C-54 be amended by deleting Clause 4.3.3 of Schedule 1.

Motion No. 115

That Bill C-54 be amended by deleting Clause 4.3.4 of Schedule 1.

Motion No. 116

That Bill C-54 be amended by deleting Clause 4.3.5 of Schedule 1.

Motion No. 117

That Bill C-54 be amended by deleting Clause 4.3.6 of Schedule 1.

Motion No. 118

That Bill C-54 be amended by deleting Clause 4.3.7 of Schedule 1.

Motion No. 119

That Bill C-54 be amended by deleting Clause 4.3.8 of Schedule 1.

Motion No. 120

That Bill C-54 be amended by deleting Clause 4.4 of Schedule 1.

Motion No. 121

That Bill C-54 be amended by deleting Clause 4.4.1 of Schedule 1.

Motion No. 122

That Bill C-54 be amended by deleting Clause 4.4.2 of Schedule 1.

Motion No. 123

That Bill C-54 be amended by deleting Clause 4.4.3 of Schedule 1.

Motion No. 124

That Bill C-54 be amended by deleting Clause 4.5 of Schedule 1.

Motion No. 125

That Bill C-54 be amended by deleting Clause 4.5.1 of Schedule 1.

Motion No. 126

That Bill C-54 be amended by deleting Clause 4.5.2 of Schedule 1.

Motion No. 127

That Bill C-54 be amended by deleting Clause 4.5.3 of Schedule 1.

Motion No. 128

That Bill C-54 be amended by deleting Clause 4.5.4 of Schedule 1.

Motion No. 129

That Bill C-54 be amended by deleting Clause 4.6 of Schedule 1.

Motion No. 130

That Bill C-54 be amended by deleting Clause 4.6.1 of Schedule 1.

Motion No. 131

That Bill C-54 be amended by deleting Clause 4.6.2 of Schedule 1.

Motion No. 132

That Bill C-54 be amended by deleting Clause 4.6.3 of Schedule 1.

Motion No. 133

That Bill C-54 be amended by deleting Clause 4.7 of Schedule 1.

Motion No. 134

That Bill C-54 be amended by deleting Clause 4.7.1 of Scheduel.

Motion No. 135

That Bill C-54 be amended by deleting Clause 4.7.2 of Schedule 1.

Motion No. 136

That Bill C-54 be amended by deleting Clause 4.7.3 of Schedule 1.

Motion No. 137

That Bill C-54 be amended by deleting Clause 4.7.4 of Schedule 1.

Motion No. 138

That Bill C-54 be amended by deleting Clause 4.7.5 of Schedule 1.

Motion No. 139

That Bill C-54 be amended by deleting Clause 4.8 of Schedule 1.

Motion No. 140

That Bill C-54 be amended by deleting Clause 4.8.1 of Schedule 1.

Motion No. 141

That Bill C-54 be amended by deleting Clause 4.8.2 of Schedule 1.

Motion No. 142

That Bill C-54 be amended by deleting Clause 4.8.3 of Schedule 1.

Motion No. 143

That Bill C-54 be amended by deleting Clause 4.9 of Schedule 1.

Motion No. 144

That Bill C-54 be amended by deleting Clause 4.9.1 of Schedule 1.

Motion No. 145

That Bill C-54 be amended by deleting Clause 4.9.2 of Schedule 1.

Motion No. 146

That Bill C-54 be amended by deleting Clause 4.9.3 of Schedule 1.

Motion No. 147

That Bill C-54 be amended by deleting Clause 4.9.4 of Schedule 1.

Motion No. 148

That Bill C-54 be amended by deleting Clause 4.9.5 of Schedule 1.

Motion No. 149

That Bill C-54 be amended by deleting Clause 4.9.6 of Schedule 1.

Motion No. 150

That Bill C-54 be amended by deleting Clause 4.10 of Schedule 1.

Motion No. 151

That Bill C-54 be amended by deleting Clause 4.10.1 of Schedule 1.

Motion No. 152

That Bill C-54 be amended by deleting Clause 4.10.2 of Schedule 1.

Motion No. 153

That Bill C-54 be amended by deleting Clause 4.10.3 of Schedule 1.

Motion No. 154

That Bill C-54 be amended by deleting Clause 4.10.4 of Schedule 1.

Motion No. 155

That Bill C-54 be amended by deleting Schedule 2.

Motion No. 156

That Bill C-54 be amended by deleting Schedule 3.

[Keith Martin, Reform, Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca, BC]

Mr. Speaker, it is a pleasure to speak to the motions in Group No. 1 at the report stage of Bill C-54.

This is a very important bill because it deals with the leading edge of technology. It refers to the explosion of information technology that is occurring today, the challenges we face as a nation, and how to protect the personal information of individuals.

I am disappointed with Bloc Quebecois members for putting together the motions in Group No. 1 because unfortunately they are intending to filibuster the entire bill. They are doing so because they believe, and to some extent correctly, that privacy issues are provincial issues. That is true.

The Reform Party seeks to create a situation where federal privacy issues are merged with and complementary to the provincial regulations that have been set up. Unfortunately only Quebec has set them up. The other provinces have not done so, primarily because of a lack of resources.

The other side of the coin is that privacy issues in relation to the Internet are not provincial in nature. They are national and international. The Internet is an international system. It is the World Wide Web. Therefore any systems and regulations we apply to the World Wide Web by their very nature have to be national and international.

The Reform Party wants to work with its provincial counterparts and provincial governments in Quebec and other parts of the country to make a seamless integrated collection of rules and regulations to ensure the protection of people's privacy. Therein lies one of the great challenges.

With the explosion of information occurring today there is another side of the coin: How do we protect people's individual privacy? A lot of information is put out there. A lot of information is of a very personal nature. People across the country are justifiably concerned as to how that information will be protected.

One of the most important areas to protect is that of medical records. The personal medical records of people are very sensitive. They fall within the category of sensitive information that can only and should only be shared among individuals and groups with an interest in treating, dealing with, and benefiting the individuals concerned.

The medical community has some grave concerns about the bill. It wants to make certain the bill will not trammel its ability to share medical information about patients. If we put roadblocks between medical professionals taking care of a particular patient we impede the ability of that patient to be treated in a responsible and effective fashion. It is a very difficult area to deal with, to be sure, but many of the motions put forth will benefit patients across the country.

On the other hand, we want to make sure the personal medical information of individuals will not be spread willy-nilly among people who have absolutely nothing to do with the care of patients. The overarching requirement in the sharing of medical information has to be that the information is shared only with people and personnel intimately involved in the care of patients.

That is what we do today. Physicians and other medical personnel share information on the basis that it is a group which is trying to take care of a particular patient or patients. It would be a very serious offence for that information to be sent out to individuals who are not involved. Penalties would be placed upon the individuals who have violated the privacy of the patients concerned.

On the larger issue in the Group No. 1 amendments, I hope the Government of Quebec, the province of Quebec and the other provinces will come together with the federal government to ensure a seamless group of rules and regulations that protects the privacy Canadians, not only between provinces but nationally and internationally.

Blockages have to take place and barriers have to exist to make sure that individuals cannot access personal information that can be used against people.

This group of amendments contains information concerning the police. We want to make sure the police have the ability to extract and acquire information about individuals engaged in criminal behaviour. The line in the sand is that the information can only be used in a legitimate investigation of individuals about whom the police are legitimately concerned who are engaging in criminal activity.

My colleague from Edmonton—Strathcona has done an incredible job. He has taken a leadership role in this issue. He has made it very clear that it cannot be used as a fishing expedition on the part of the police or any other organization. They cannot extract or find information about people who have absolutely nothing to do with the criminal activity.

It is a very fine line. We want to make sure that the police, as I said before with respect to the medical community, are able to obtain the information on individuals they require to do the job they are tasked to do. On the other hand, we want to make very certain that personal information on the individual is not abused. The laws of the country are there to protect the personal information of individuals. Penalties will be paid by those who abuse personal information.

With the explosion of the Internet and with the explosion of electronic commerce a great deal of potential exists, not only for our country but for individuals and companies, to be able to utilize this information in a very productive fashion. We are in favour of that.

The member for Edmonton—Strathcona has done a great job in shepherding the bill through and helping the government craft a finer bill than it was originally. We are in support of the bill to make sure rules and regulations are in place to protect the personal security of individuals and to make sure that there will be no barriers or impediments to fair and equal utilization of information technology for the benefit of the country and Canadians.