Debates of Feb. 16th, 2000

Human Resources Development

[Jane Stewart, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, I am very proud to stand in my place as the member of parliament for Brant to say that the transitional jobs fund and the Canada jobs fund have made a difference in providing opportunities for employment for the people of my riding. In both of these cases men and women who have not had the opportunity to work for years are now employed. That is what these programs were intended to do.

[Peter MacKay, Progressive Conservative, Pictou—Antigonish—Guysborough, NS]

Mr. Speaker, I do not know why she would be proud to take jobs from her colleague's riding.

The minister has quoted unemployment statistics for her riding in 1995. Surely similar information should be available to all MPs, not just Liberal MPs. When several of our MPs called their local HRDC offices, they found that this information is only available by economic region. In 1995 the unemployment rate in the minister's riding was 8%. How then did she qualify for TJF funding? Why did the minister get preferential treatment?

[Jane Stewart, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, indeed the statistics as compiled by Statistics Canada were available for my riding and that is the information that was used.

[Chuck Strahl, Reform, Fraser Valley, BC]

Mr. Speaker, it does seem that we have seen this movie before. The Prime Minister and his office sent a letter to the bureaucrats asking for money but of course there is no application actually on file. What happens? The bureaucrats write back a hurried memo saying that while it is outside the rules, the Prime Minister asked for it so they had better get moving.

The last time he wanted money was for a hotel in his riding. We remember that deal. He got the grant even though no application was ever found. This time it is a $200,000 fountain in Shawinigan.

Why is there one set of rules for the Prime Minister and his cabinet and another set of rules for the rest of Canadians?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, this is a project. Reform members should do their homework. It is not with the department of human resources but with regional development agency for Quebec.

This project is financed like the infrastructure project was, partly by the federal government, partly by the provincial government and partly by the municipal government. It is a joint venture. The three levels of government made an agreement. That is why the project exists. It is not a unilateral decision by the government. It is a joint venture by the three levels of government which are working together to make sure the people of that region can enjoy jobs like anywhere else in the country.

[Chuck Strahl, Reform, Fraser Valley, BC]

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister makes my point. It does not matter which department. This problem goes right to the Prime Minister's office and throughout the government. It is no wonder the HRDC minister has such a problem in her department. When she sets up illegal trust funds there is no reaction over there—

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[The Speaker]

Order, please. Stay away from the word illegal, please.

[Chuck Strahl, Reform, Fraser Valley, BC]

Mr. Speaker, she uses public money to lure jobs from other people's ridings and ignores audits not only in her own department but in the last department she ran. Why does she do that? Because she does not get any problem from the Prime Minister. He says that this kind of stuff is okay. In fact he bends the rules in his own riding. Why is there one set of rules for the Prime Minister and the front bench while the rest of Canadians have to play by the rules every single time?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, the rules apply to everybody on both sides of the House.

They are always asking questions. I know why their leader is struggling and trying to get rid of what is known as the Reform Party and starting a new one.

In every riding we can make applications and receive grants when we qualify, ministers and members on both sides of the aisle. In fact, with some of these funds, very often more money goes to the ridings of the opposition than to the ridings of the government side.

[Paul Crête, Bloc, Kamouraska—Rivière-Du-Loup—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

Mr. Speaker, yesterday, the minister said in this House that the unemployment rate used for the transitional jobs fund was the 1995 rate and that the rate for the Canada jobs fund was the 1997 rate.

How does the minister explain that the monthly rate is used for the unemployed and a rate outdated by several years is used for grants to business?

[Jane Stewart, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, the program criteria have to be based on something and in this case it was 1995—

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[The Speaker]

The hon. Minister of Human Resources Development.

[Jane Stewart, Liberal, Brant, ON]

Mr. Speaker, as I said, the program criteria for the transitional jobs fund were based on employment statistics for 1995. The program criteria for the Canada jobs fund were based on statistics for 1997. It is the same for ridings on this side of the House as it is for ridings on that side.

[Paul Crête, Bloc, Kamouraska—Rivière-Du-Loup—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

Mr. Speaker, how does the minister explain the questionable efficiency of her department in the frantic rush to hunt down the unemployed, when shamelessly little attention is given to the administrative follow-up of grants to business?

[Jane Stewart, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, the programs are working. They are working in our ridings. They are working in the ridings of the Bloc members. It is thanks to programs like the transitional jobs fund, like the Canada jobs—

[Yvan Loubier, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Why not define?

[The Speaker]

The hon. Minister of Human Resources Development.

[Jane Stewart, Liberal, Brant, ON]

Mr. Speaker, the criteria applied are the same in ridings whether they be opposition ridings or government ridings.

The transitional jobs fund came into vogue in 1995 with the changes to the Employment Insurance Act. It transitioned itself into the Canada jobs fund in 1997 and the rules are there.

[Diane Ablonczy, Reform, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Mr. Speaker, we could pursue that for sure but I would really like to know about the transitional jobs fund and why the minister is making it into the transfer of jobs funds. She used it to lure Duchess Foods from Hamilton into her own riding, a whole distance of 30 kilometres by the way, not to create jobs but to bolster the minister's image.

The only reason the company moved was because the minister dangled $370,000 in front of it. How could this possibly benefit Canadians who are footing the bill?

[Jane Stewart, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, I say again that I am very proud of the investment that went to this company and ensured that 156 citizens of my community who were not working before now have employment.

The real issue here is that day after day the Reform Party stands up and undermines the effect of the transitional jobs fund and the Canada jobs fund, but day after day I received phone calls from the offices of individual members and letters from the offices of individual members. The Reform Party cannot suck and blow at the same time.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[Suzanne Tremblay, Bloc, Rimouski—Mitis, QC]

What did she say? We did not get the translation.

[The Speaker]

Sometimes some words are more difficult to translate than others, so we should stay away from it.