Debates of Feb. 23rd, 2000

Cida

[Gurmant Grewal, Reform, Surrey Central, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I am talking about boondoggle number two. CIDA mismanaged nearly a billion dollars. Forty per cent of the projects failed, yet it kept throwing good money after bad. Ninety per cent of companies did not even report back to show where the money was spent. CIDA is a financial disaster.

Is it the government's goal to bungle a billion dollars in every department?

[Maria Minna, Liberal, Minister for International Cooperation]

Mr. Speaker, if the hon. gentleman is talking about CIDA aid, which I presume he is, I am not sure if he is mixing apples and oranges.

We have a 20% success rate in the analyses done. They are done to save money because when we do an analysis we will not go ahead with a project unless it is worthwhile doing. The reason for the analysis is to ensure that we are not throwing away good money. In fact, the hon. gentleman said in the newspaper at the time that when CIDA has to recover money, we recover 100% of all money.

Health Care

[Alexa McDonough, NDP, Halifax, NS]

Mr. Speaker, I suggest to the Prime Minister that the best way to show respect for Canadian taxpayers is that when he does come to work, he address their priority concerns.

We know that the top priority for Canadians is health care. What Canadians want from the government is a stable, long term commitment to rebuild the health care partnership.

Will the Prime Minister make that commitment today or will he go on making excuses while we slide steadily and surely toward the Americanized two tier, privatized health care system that Canadians do not want?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, we showed last year that our priority coincides precisely with the number one priority of Canadians by devoting the budget to health care, by increasing by $11.5 billion the transfers to the provinces after they promised to use the additional money only for that purpose.

More than money will be required to fix what is wrong with health care. The status quo is not acceptable. Changes have to be made. I have put proposals on the table and invited provincial ministers to join me in working toward renewing medicare. That is our number one priority.

[Alexa McDonough, NDP, Halifax, NS]

Mr. Speaker, no wonder Canadians are worried if the best the government can do when it says health care is its priority is to contribute 15% of health care spending from what was a partnership of 50:50.

If the government is content to let that partnership fall apart and to remain a junior partner in health care, why does it not just admit it?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, I am afraid the hon. member has been taking at face value some of the numbers used by Ralph Klein and Mike Harris. They are wrong. The value of the annual transfers from the Government of Canada to the provinces is more like 26 cents on every health dollar, and 45 cents is spent by the provinces.

Let us start from the right numbers and let us also acknowledge that more than money is required. We will have to make changes in the way services are delivered. I have offered to work with my provincial counterparts.

Industrial Cooperation Program

[Diane St-Jacques, Progressive Conservative, Shefford, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister for International Cooperation.

An audit of the industrial cooperation program shows that 37% of cases reviewed were funded despite the absence of progress reports and that there was no final report at all for 10% of projects.

Will the minister make public today the list of businesses that received payments despite incomplete files?

[Maria Minna, Liberal, Minister for International Cooperation]

Mr. Speaker, no payments are made without supporting invoices at CIDA. We will not issue final payments to companies that do not submit final reports that are satisfactory.

We now have a method of payment that a company will only be paid if it makes specific results which are targeted in advance. In addition, the hon. member is talking about feasibility studies. We do them in order to ensure that when we invest in projects they will be viable and not ones that will not work. That is why it is 27%. We are saving taxpayers' dollars.

[Diane St-Jacques, Progressive Conservative, Shefford, QC]

Mr. Speaker, this sounds familiar It is not the first time we have heard this story.

When the audit report was made public, her department decided not to release the names of the businesses and projects reviewed. The president of CIDA said that it was a question of determining what information they wanted to make public.

In the interests of transparency and openness, will the minister give us today a complete list of the businesses and projects for which funding was approved between 1997 and 1999?

[Maria Minna, Liberal, Minister for International Cooperation]

Mr. Speaker, I made it public immediately after the audit was finished in December. I reviewed it in December, finished it in December and made it public in December.

The hon. member has the complete copy of the audit from the original copy that I have in my office. The information is all in her handbook.

Health

[Rey D. Pagtakhan, Liberal, Winnipeg North—St. Paul, MB]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Health.

The most recent issue of the Canadian Medical Association Journal shows Canada, by its own standards, is about half a year late in approving new drugs, which could be the only hope for a cure or the only drug able to ease the pain of a patient.

What steps are being taken to cut the delay in drug approval and assure Canadians that timely access to needed medicine is there?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, I share the hon. member's concern about getting pharmaceutical products to Canadians as quickly as possible and consistent with public safety, and that is what we are trying to do at Health Canada.

The drug approval times since 1994 have improved dramatically. I believe it was an average of 45 months in 1994. It is now down to 18 months for drug approval.

We have worked with specific communities, including the AIDS community, to bring important new drugs to market as quickly as possible. Obviously there is room for more improvement. As the Health Canada budget permits, we will work very hard to—

[The Speaker]

The hon. member for Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca.

Cida

[Keith Martin, Reform, Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca, BC]

Mr. Speaker, the minister in charge of CIDA is wrong.

I do not know what reports she is looking at, but we have a stack of performance reports showing the following: poor planning, weak financial control and a disregard for her own environmental protection rules. Those are her reports. I wonder if she is taking the same kind of management rules, regulations and observations as the minister of HRD.

We want to see this management plan that she has. Will the minister table this management plan today in the House?

[Maria Minna, Liberal, Minister for International Cooperation]

Mr. Speaker, the opposition members have some 30 audits in their hands on different types of programs in different parts of the world. With respect, one cannot mix them all across the board.

With respect to the comment regarding environment, the agencies that we were working with at the time did some environmental studies. Our auditor feels that it should have been part of a management plan, and I agree with that. I have asked for that to be done in every case from now on.

A central laboratory has been built to environmental standards which meets and exceeds those in effect in Canada. That is only one report. It does not address—

Human Resources Development

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Human Resources Development's answer to my last question was that she would take the time to look into what happened with Rosemont and Saint-Maurice and that she would get back to me.

I imagine that yesterday she did not have time to check out the changes to the lists. And she was debriefed by her advisers, I am sure, because that is how it works.

Could she tell me today why the lists were changed? Or, if her predecessor, who says he knows how it works, wants to answer, let him be brave enough to do so.

[Jane Stewart, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, there is great confusion here. There were no master lists and that has been clear.

In response to requests from members of parliament at the standing committee who wanted information about grants and contributions in their ridings, we prepared the information and it is now public.

In the notes to the reader, it is clear that because of technical difficulties the lists that are now presented may not be exactly the same as the lists that were requested in the past through access to information or through other manners.

Let us be clear: 10,000 pages, 30,000 projects—

[The Speaker]

The hon. member for Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre.

Gasoline Prices

[John Solomon, NDP, Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre, SK]

Mr. Speaker, yesterday the Prime Minister told truckers facing bankruptcy to pass on soaring energy costs to their customers.

Not only is he passing the buck, now he is fueling inflation as well. The Liberals can come up with a six point plan to save their patronage minister but there is no plan to save Canadians against soaring energy prices.

If the U.S. government can put together a 17 point plan to defend Americans from the OPEC cartel, why does our Prime Minister not have a 17 point plan, or a six point plan, or any kind of a plan to defend Canadians? Does anyone over there give a damn?

[The Speaker]

Please stay away from that kind of language.

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Minister of Natural Resources and Minister responsible for the Canadian Wheat Board]

Mr. Speaker, I have had the opportunity to review the measures that were announced in the United States. They amount to macro measures that try to avoid the disruptions in the delivery of external fuel sources into the United States. I am happy to say that Canada does not suffer from that problem because we are a net exporter.

[Scott Brison, Progressive Conservative, Kings—Hants, NS]

Mr. Speaker, truckers are facing bankruptcy. We have inflationary pressures due to rising gas prices and all we are getting is gaseous emissions from the government on this issue.

The fact is that this Minister of Finance raised the gas taxes in 1995 by 1.5 cents per litre as a deficit reduction measure. The deficit is gone. Why is that tax still there?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, I sat in the House when day after day the Tory minister of finance rose in the House and announced another tax increase, whether it was personal tax increases, excise tax increases or GST tax increases. The fact is that in every single budget since we have eliminated the deficit, we have brought taxes down and we will continue to do that.

Point Of Order

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Verchères, QC]

Mr. Speaker, since the government seems intent on going ahead with Bill C-20 in spite of a great many calls not to do so, and since it continues to turn a deaf ear to the various arguments for withdrawing the legislation, I have here an article from the daily La Presse of February 17, 2000. This article is quite recent, which should delight the government House leader. It is entitled “Committee Debate on Clarity Turning into Family Feud”.

In order to enlighten the House on what might happen over the next few days, I am asking for unanimous consent to table that document.

[The Speaker]

Is there unanimous consent of the House?