Debates of May 7th, 2001

Post-Secondary Education

[Peter Adams, Liberal, Peterborough, ON]

Mr. Speaker, the Canadian Association of University Teachers recently released a poll showing that 75% of Canadians believe that the federal government should establish national standards for higher education, as it does for health.

The poll also showed that only 27% of Canadians believe that provincial governments should be the primary funders of colleges and university.

In virtually all confederations around the world, post-secondary education is already a federal responsibility. The CAUT proposes a Canada post-secondary education act to provide a firm basis for the federal government's many roles in higher education and research.

The government has done fine work for post-secondary education. It is clear that Canadians know this and believe that its future efforts should be vigorous, well focused and based on a truly national vision.

World War Ii

[Peter Goldring, Canadian Alliance, Edmonton Centre-East, AB]

Mr. Speaker, a new dawn broke over Europe's wartorn land 56 years ago. The crash of shells and the burst of bombs were replaced with church bells tolling for peace. Peace at last to a Europe engorged for six long years with war. A war so cataclysmic that tens of millions perished at the blade of the war sword and in the gas chambers designed by Hitler's mad men.

The cannons of war would now point to the Far East where soon a minute atom would in turn extinguish Hirohito's will for war.

Victory in Europe was a celebration for a continent, a pause on the road to a world free of war. Canada had over one million in uniform to help quell the rage of World War II. We remember today the price of this peace, those who fought and lived and those who never returned home. Lest we all forget.

Ethics Counsellor

[Stockwell Day, Canadian Alliance, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, it appears that some in the Liberal cabinet are beginning to warm to the grand theme of democratic reform proposed by grassroot citizens of the Canadian Alliance right across the country. We are excited about that.

We see that the finance minister's surrogates are telling reporters that there is too much power in the office of the Prime Minister. That is a revelation to them and we are excited about that.

Will the Minister of Finance share with us his list of what specific powers he will take away from the Prime Minister? Does that list include the requirement to table an annual budget, not an update, something that does not happen right now?

[Herb Gray, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Finance is an active and very successful member of the present Liberal team. I am glad to hear that the Leader of the Opposition is agreeing that whoever follows the present Prime Minister in the future it will not be the Leader of the Opposition. It could well be the present Minister of Finance.

[Stockwell Day, Canadian Alliance, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, that is very weak. The Canadian Alliance has long insisted on there being an independent ethics counsellor for parliament. And, perhaps—surprise, surprise—the Minister of Finance, it would appear, is of the same opinion.

Why did he vote against this idea?

[Herb Gray, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. leader is speaking of democracy. If he considers he is truly in a democracy, when will he lift the gag on his own members?

[Stockwell Day, Canadian Alliance, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, avoiding the question will not help the government.

The Minister of Finance has said that he will take powers away from the Prime Minister's office. It was the Minister of Finance who wrote the red book on the promise to have an independent ethics counsellor.

I will ask the question again, and instead of evasiveness, I would ask for a simple yes or no. Will there be support from the government when we return with the question about having an independent ethics counsellor? Will the government follow the Minister of Finance who has now changed his mind and is saying that we should have an independent counsellor?

[Herb Gray, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, first, the member's premise is wrong. He is not quoting the Minister of Finance. I read the article very closely. The comments in the article are not those of the Minister of Finance himself.

I ask the hon. Leader of the Opposition not to be evasive. If he believes in democracy when will he take the gag order off his own alleged supporters? Why did he discipline and kick out of his caucus a member of his group? Where is democracy in the Alliance? There is not very much in that party.

[Stockwell Day, Canadian Alliance, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, the government cannot get our facts right and it cannot get its facts right. Nobody has been kicked out of our caucus.

I will ask the Prime Minister my question. When this came to a vote in the House of Commons, why did he order all Liberal MPs to vote against their own word of honour, to break their promise and to vote against having an independent counsellor? Could he answer that?

[Herb Gray, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, if the hon. member were so concerned about parliamentary democracy he would not break a fundamental rule and reflect on a vote in the House.

Hon. members in the House voted in the way that was consistent with their own consciences, and what they did was consistent with the support of the Canadian people. If we compare the support of the Canadian people in the last election for the Alliance Party and the support of the Canadian people for the Liberal Party, the present Prime Minister and the people on this side of the House, there is a world of difference. The Alliance Party was categorically rejected and it will be rejected again if it continues this course of action.

[Grant Hill, Canadian Alliance, Macleod, AB]

Mr. Speaker, it is an interesting juxtaposition. We have the finance minister over here and the industry minister who is actually in charge of the ethics counsellor.

I would like to ask the industry minister whether or not he is willing to bring in legislation, since he is in charge of the ethics counsellor, and maybe to nudge his cabinet rival a little bit and say that he can bring in new legislation for an independent ethics counsellor.

[Brian Tobin, Liberal, Minister of Industry]

Mr. Speaker, I am willing to do exactly what the Deputy Prime Minister tells me to do. The Deputy Prime Minister is willing to do exactly what this cabinet under our great Prime Minister decides to do. Nothing more and nothing less.

Government Contracts

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, in April 1999, Groupaction contributed $52,000 to the Liberal Party and was awarded a $3.5 million contract to manage federal sponsorships related to outdoor activities.

One month later, that same organization, Groupaction, was awarded another contract of $615,000 to check if these initiatives were good for the federal government's visibility.

How does the minister of public works explain Groupaction, which is a generous Liberal supporter, being awarded a $615,000 to evaluate its own work?

[Alfonso Gagliano, Liberal, Minister of Public Works and Government Services]

Mr. Speaker, Groupaction was not awarded a contract to evaluate its own work. It was awarded a contract to evaluate our sponsorship system across the country. Groupaction reported back to us. We also had an internal audit. We have issued new guidelines. We have also launched a new competition for agencies.

From now on, we will have an even better program.

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, since 1997, Groupaction has contributed $122,000 to the Liberal Party. It was awarded a $615,000 contract without any call for tenders. The minister sees nothing wrong and says that the evaluation was not exclusively on Groupaction's work, but it was primarily on its work.

Will the minister admit that this group is not at all in a position to evaluate a group of companies of which it is part and to set rules to determine if the work was properly done?

Does the minister not agree that there is a conflict of interest here?

[Alfonso Gagliano, Liberal, Minister of Public Works and Government Services]

Mr. Speaker, Groupaction qualified as a communications agency through a call for tenders in 1997.

As an accredited agency, it receives mandates from us to seek opinions and it also gets contracts. This is a competitive process. It is not just a contract.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Verchères—Les Patriotes, QC]

Mr. Speaker, Groupaction not only received a generous contract from the federal government to manage outdoor activity sponsorships, but it was later awarded another generous contract to ensure, after the fact, that the work had been productive and well done.

In order to avoid any appearance of conflict of interest, would the minister not agree that it would have been appropriate for the contract to do follow-up on the operation of sponsorships to be awarded to a company other than the one that had done the managing and was then assigned the job of evaluating its own performance?

[Alfonso Gagliano, Liberal, Minister of Public Works and Government Services]

Mr. Speaker, there is more than one agency. Several agencies handle sponsorships.

Groupaction was therefore not evaluating just its own work, but the work in general. We asked it to look into how such a program could be improved. That is what was done.

Since then, there has also been an internal audit of the system. We have issued new guidelines. We have launched a new competition, which is almost over. And, as of now, we have a better program.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Verchères—Les Patriotes, QC]

Mr. Speaker, it is interesting to note that Groupaction recommended that the federal government continue these sponsorships, which were felt to be very productive.

Ultimately, if the government decided to award the contract to evaluate the effectiveness of the sponsorships without going to tender, was it not because it knew that this company would tell it what it wanted to hear and endorse this new facet of its policy of propaganda?

[Alfonso Gagliano, Liberal, Minister of Public Works and Government Services]

Mr. Speaker, I think that the last word of the member's question says it all. That is their problem. Every time they notice the presence of the Government of Canada in Quebec, they get nervous.

The company in question was successful in a competitive bidding process, as were all the other agencies, and a contract was awarded in order to evaluate whether sponsorship programs were going to meet the objective we had set. That is what was done, in compliance with all the standards and all the rules.

Health

[Alexa McDonough, NDP, Halifax, NS]

Mr. Speaker, the federal Liberals since 1983 have talked about the need for enforceable regulations to assure safe drinking water. After a 14 year delay, the government finally introduced legislation and then let it die on the order paper.

Six more months have past since the most recent election and still no federal leadership and no federal legislation. People are dying as a result of this shameful neglect.

When will the government address this urgent priority and introduce tough, enforceable, national standards to safeguard drinking water?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, there are national standards. They were negotiated among all governments and Health Canada took the lead in creating them.

The answer to the issues that arise is not to simply adopt a new law or a new set of guidelines or standards. If the media reports are correct, what is wrong with the water in North Battleford is something that is contrary to the existing guidelines. The issue is enforcing them and making sure we have follow through by local and provincial governments. In that regard, we intend to continue our efforts working with our provincial partners.

[Alexa McDonough, NDP, Halifax, NS]

Mr. Speaker, that is exactly the operative word, enforceable. We thought the government was coming to its senses. We actually thought it was about to do something about mandatory, enforceable, national water quality standards.

What do we hear today from the member for Bonavista—Trinity—Conception, the minister of everything? He said that Ottawa was not about to take a leading role, that the provinces were responsible. He said that the provinces should develop a plan to fix the problem and then the feds might co-operate. That is what I call leadership.

How many Canadians is the government prepared to see die before it finally acts?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, the reality is that we have developed, with our provincial partners, the very kind of standards that the member is talking about. Access to safe drinking water is one of the fundamental rights of citizenship. We are determined, working with our partners, each doing our own part and playing our own role, to see that safe drinking water is available.

Let me just note something before sitting down. When we introduced Bill C-14 some three years ago dealing with materials through which drinking water passes to establish legislative standards, the NDP opposed it saying that it was a case of misguided—

[The Speaker]

The hon. member for Fundy—Royal.